Plant nutrition

[Jimmy74]

Do nitrates provide all the needed nutrients for plants? Or are they lacking in something that root tabs and liquid ferts offer?


this is a comparison between nitrates and tabs/liquid fert so if u can leave CO2 out of it that would be helpful, thanx

 

[itiwhetu]

I have found that fish waste provides everything aquatic plants need to survive. I have never used any fertilizers and believe that over use of fertilizers can be detrimental to your fishes health.

 

[Colin_T]

Most aquarium plant fertilisers do not contain ammonia, nitrite or nitrate because are readily available in most aquariums due to the fish and fish food.

Phosphates are another nutrient that is not found in aquarium plant fertilisers and it has no place in aquariums with fish.

I prefer a liquid aquarium plant fertiliser that is iron based and has other nutrients in it. Some brands will have trace elements too, whereas other brands have the trace elements sold separately.

 

[itiwhetu]

Most aquarium plant fertilisers do not contain ammonia, nitrite or nitrate because are readily available in most aquariums due to the fish and fish food.

Phosphates are another nutrient that is not found in aquarium plant fertilisers and it has no place in aquariums with fish.

I prefer a liquid aquarium plant fertiliser that is iron based and has other nutrients in it. Some brands will have trace elements too, whereas other brands have the trace elements sold separately.

I have always used a natural neutral substrate and have always relied on that to be leeching enough of the trace elements into the tank. From the quarries you can find gravel from different regions depending on which one you choose will determine how soft or hard your tank will be and also will influence the type of plants that will do best.

 

[Byron]

Do nitrates provide all the needed nutrients for plants? Or are they lacking in something that root tabs and liquid ferts offer?


this is a comparison between nitrates and tabs/liquid fert so if u can leave CO2 out of it that would be helpful, thanx

Aquatic plants that we use in our tanks do not take up nitrates*. Their preferred nitrogen source is ammonia/ammonium, and the fast-growing plants can take up a lot of this, more than a balanced fish load can produce in any aquarium. And ammonia/ammonium is produced not only by fish respiration but during decomposition of organics primarily in the substrate--which also happens to be the primary source of CO2.

* The above is considering natural or low-tech method planted tanks; high-tech with brighter light and diffused CO2 is a different issue, just to be clear. Most of us with an aquarium have fish tanks with live plants so the emphasis is on the fish and this is the natural or low-tech method.

Plants only turn to using nitrates if the ammonia/ammonium is insufficient in balance with everything else. There will never be a shortage of ammonia/ammonium in most fish tanks, depending upon the numbers of fish and feeding. Nitrates should be low even zero in planted tanks with fish. This is because the plants take up the majority of ammonia/ammonium, so very little is left for ammonia-oxidizing bacteria which means little nitrite, and thus little nitrate. If nitrates are not below 20 ppm there may well be a problem biologically--unless they are primarily entering the tank in the source (tap) water, which is a different issue/problem.

Plants have need of some 17 nutrients. It is true that feeding the fish and doing water changes may supply most, perhaps even all, of these, it all depends upon the fish and feedings, plant species and numbers, and light. I cannot get good plant growth without fertilizers, I have experimented over a few years and this has been the obvious conclusion. But it does not take much--I use substrate tabs for the larger plants especially swords, and a comprehensive liquid for floating plants (of which I have a lot in each tank, basically covering the surface).

 

[StevenF]

ExcludingCO2 water and light, plants need:
Nitrogen
potassium
Calcium
Magnesium
Phosphorous
sulfur
Chlorine. (not chlorine gas which is very corrosive but in the form of a chloride salt)
iron
manganese
Boron
Zinc
Copper
Molybdenum
nickel

Plants need more nitrogen then anything elsa on the list. Nickel is the least used nutrient. Lab studies pf plants done before most of use were born have verified this list. Ifjust one is missing your plants may not grow or die. And if the plants are not growing they consume very few or no nutrients.

The substrate, water will typically have some nutrients in it. But seldom does it have all. Some substrates, RO, and distilled water contain essentially no nutrients. Fish waist does contain these nutrients but the amount will depend on the number of fish and there size and appetite The amount of nutrients plants need is often determined try light levels and CO2 levels. Nitrogen can be in the form of ammonia, nitrite, amino acids and nitrate. Phosphorous is most often found in the form of phosphate but is also pressent in amino acids and proteans.

 

[itiwhetu]

So @Byron says 17 and @StevenF says 14 nutrients so which one is it. It is no wonder that if the two plant Gurus can't agree how can anybody else get there heads around what we should be doing.

How are we meant to test for 14 or 17 nutrients in our tanks so that we know what we are deficient in. So then we know how to have beautiful planted aquariums. Because it sounds like if we don't get this equation right we will fail.

 

[StevenF]

So @Byron says 17 and @StevenF says 14 nutrients so which one is it. It is no wonder that if the two plant Gurus can't agree how can anybody else get there heads around what we should be doing.

15. Water
16. CO2
17. Light

Read the first line of my post again. Everyone know about those 3 nutrients but many don't know of the 14 I listed. So I focused on the one most people don't know about.

How are we meant to test for 14 or 17 nutrients in our tanks so that we know what we are deficient in. So then we know how to have beautiful planted aquariums. Because it sounds like if we don't get this equation right we will fail.

Thant is the problem. Many use trial end error until they find a way to get it to work. others give up, and others spend a lot of time trying to get it to work. You can follow the advice on the forms but keep in mind it may o may not work for you. An ICP OES lab test i the closest way we have to measure most of the 14 (nutrients (it may not detect manganese). It cannot tell you if the nutrient is soluble. if it is not soluble the plant may not be able to use.it. It also cannot tell you the CO2,and Nitrogen levels.

 

[itiwhetu]

15. Water
16. CO2
17. Light

Read the first line of my post again. Everyone know about those 3 nutrients but many don't know of the 14 I listed. So I focused on the one most people don't know about.

Thant is the problem. Many use trial end error until they find a way to get it to work. others give up, and others spend a lot of time trying to get it to work. You can follow the advice on the forms but keep in mind it may o may not work for you. An ICP OES lab test i the closest way we have to measure most of the 14 (nutrients (it may not detect manganese). It cannot tell you if the nutrient is soluble. if it is not soluble the plant may not be able to use.it. It also cannot tell you the CO2,and Nitrogen levels.

Surely water isn't a nutrient it is only the thing that the nutrients are carried in. Like wise with light. And where is Oxygen in this equation

 

[itiwhetu]

My list is this:

Macronutrients; Calcium Carbon Magnesium Nitrogen Oxygen Phosphorus Potassium
Sulphur
Micronutrients: Boron Iron Chlorine Nickel Copper Manganese Molybdenum Zinc

Which is really good information but doesn't actually make the plants grow.

Light, Heat, water quality and fish make the plants grow.

 

[StevenF]

Look at the first line I wrote. "Excluding , CO2, water, and light" Most people know of these but don't know about the other 14. SoI focused on the other 14. Water and CO2 provide carbon, oxygen, and hydrogen.

There is no one test that will detect all nutrient deficiencies. One of the best wee have is ICP-OES lab test but the results are open to interpritation. It will not detect Nitrogen, CO2 and has difficulty detecting manganese. Italso will not tell you if the nutrient is soluble. If it is not soluble it isn't available to plants.

the other way is to look at the plant. sometimes the leaves will give you a close as to what is wrong. But again what you see is open to interpritation. Some deficiencies are easy to identify but many are not. The best information on what to look for comes from information farmers and gardeners. But it is about the best we have. butt the information you find is sometimes wrong.And sometimes you just have to take an educated guess. this is a fairly good video on this.

 

[StevenF]

Macronutrients; Calcium Carbon Magnesium Nitrogen Oxygen Phosphorus Potassium
Sulphur
Micronutrients: Boron Iron Chlorine Nickel Copper Manganese Molybdenum Zinc

Which is really good information but doesn't actually make the plants grow.

Light, Heat, water quality and fish make the plants grow.

You missed calcium and magnesium and they are macros.You also missed nickel a micro. If you use pure RO water and add the micro and macro nutrients sand put plant in it. Do not put any animals, gravel and soil in the water, Provide light and the plant will grow. I have don that experiment myself. you don't need KH and let PH go to where it wants the plant will still grow.

 

[itiwhetu]

You missed calcium and magnesium and they are macros.You also missed nickel a micro. If you use pure RO water and add the micro and macro nutrients sand put plant in it. Do not put any animals, gravel and soil in the water, Provide light and the plant will grow. I have don that experiment myself. you don't need KH and let PH go to where it wants the plant will still grow.

Please re read my list

 

[StevenF]

Sorry I had to refresh my screen it wasn't showing everything.

Surely water isn't a nutrient it is only the thing that the nutrients are carried in. Like wise with light. And where is Oxygen in this equation

Water is H2O (hydrogen and oxygen. CO2 is carbonated oxygen, Those two nutrients supply all the carbon, oxygen, and hydrogen plants need. Carbon alone makes up about 97% of a plants mass.

 

[itiwhetu]

Nutrients need to be listed as elements not compounds. Hydrogen is not a nutrient