Phosphates Re: Hair Algae

newfishaddict

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Hi, I would like to know the sources of phosphates in an aquarium? I do not have any detectable in my tap water that I use to fill the aquarium; but since I am having hair algae problems I wonder about phosphates...

Hair algae problems:
in my 21g (1.7 wpg with co2 added via yeast, about 15ppm)

in my 55g(3.5 wpg with co2 added via yeast, about 15ppm)


15ppm is lower than recommended but I just added co2 two weeks ago and I am working up to 25ppm slowly.

Note:my hair algae did start when I had no co2 in the thanks, but less light also (about 1.5-2 wpg in 55g, and still 1.7 wpg in my 21g)

I am using 12.5 hrs of light per day....
 
Do you have a phosphate testkit?

What makes you think your aquarium water has excess phosphate that is causing algae?

You have more than likely pinpointed the source of your hair algae allready........lack of co2 particularily in the 55 gallon, its no use bringing the co2 levels up slowly algae does not understand this, you either have the correct amount of co2 or you dont, it just knows there is a deficiency and this is what it is thriving off.

On the smaller tank there is a possibility co2 could be an issue here as well but more likely some sort of nutrient deficiency from lack of fertiliser, i have a small tank with less light than yours but if i dont add co2 i get hair algae within a day or so.

Do you dose fertiliser to either of these tanks? you will definatly have to consider this on the higher light tank or you will continue to have algae problems.

Also keeping the lights on for 12.5 hours straight without proper co2 or ferts is just asking for trouble i would recommend you reduce the lighting until you are happy you have identified the cause of the algae.

You should have a look at the Estimate Index article pinned at the top of this section, this is particularily relevent to the 55 gallon with 3.5 WPG this is a highlight tank and will require proper amounts of co2 and regular fertilisation, you will note from that article that it may auctually be nescessary for you to dose phosphate to your tank, i dose my tank with phosphate 3x per week!

If you can post some more information on you tank stats that would be helpful, ph, kh, gh, nitrate, phosphate levels etc. and what way you dose these tank with fertiliser.

Also what type of tubes have you got running over the tanks and what type.

With proper fert dosing and sufficient co2 it should be easy enough to eliminate the hair algae problems from these tanks, but i would reduce the lighing duration for now until you get it under control, 8-9 hours is more than enough for now and will reduce the growth of the algae.

Last thing.....are these tanks heavily planted and how long are they setup?
 
Do you have a phosphate testkit?

What makes you think your aquarium water has excess phosphate that is causing algae?

You have more than likely pinpointed the source of your hair algae allready........lack of co2 particularily in the 55 gallon, its no use bringing the co2 levels up slowly algae does not understand this, you either have the correct amount of co2 or you dont, it just knows there is a deficiency and this is what it is thriving off.

On the smaller tank there is a possibility co2 could be an issue here as well but more likely some sort of nutrient deficiency from lack of fertiliser, i have a small tank with less light than yours but if i dont add co2 i get hair algae within a day or so.

Do you dose fertiliser to either of these tanks? you will definatly have to consider this on the higher light tank or you will continue to have algae problems.

Also keeping the lights on for 12.5 hours straight without proper co2 or ferts is just asking for trouble i would recommend you reduce the lighting until you are happy you have identified the cause of the algae.

You should have a look at the Estimate Index article pinned at the top of this section, this is particularily relevent to the 55 gallon with 3.5 WPG this is a highlight tank and will require proper amounts of co2 and regular fertilisation, you will note from that article that it may auctually be nescessary for you to dose phosphate to your tank, i dose my tank with phosphate 3x per week!

If you can post some more information on you tank stats that would be helpful, ph, kh, gh, nitrate, phosphate levels etc. and what way you dose these tank with fertiliser.

Also what type of tubes have you got running over the tanks and what type.

With proper fert dosing and sufficient co2 it should be easy enough to eliminate the hair algae problems from these tanks, but i would reduce the lighing duration for now until you get it under control, 8-9 hours is more than enough for now and will reduce the growth of the algae.

Last thing.....are these tanks heavily planted and how long are they setup?
Thanks once again Zig, you have frequently been very helpful. Thanks so much for your time! I feel like sending you an Christmas present.....;)

I do not have a phosphate test kit, but I will get one tomorrow. I just know my tap water has no detectable phosphate.

I have an iron test kit, but I wonder why use it? Since I am using commercial “all in one” fertilizers if I added these until my iron was at appropriate levels, I would be concerned that I would be overdosing some other nutrients. Perhaps it is time to dose fertilizers as your “Estimative Index Explained” suggests…..I do understand the article but I was hoping to avoid such complexities, but I have now decided to take that plunge….

Ive been adding co2 slowly because I m am truly scared of killing my fish during the night when the heavily planted tanks' plants’ release co2,,,(especially the 29g with 350$ of fish in it, and not too much current and water agitation at the surface, and adding an air stone at night bothers my girlfriend since the tank is in my bedroom, the pump is too noisy.). With Kh of 100 is this VERY unlikely?

All tanks have nitrite and ammonia <0.1 (not detectable, using drops test kit), and nitrate usually 5-8ppm but about 10-12 when I change water…

I do dose fertilizers. I use a few different liquid aquarium plant fertilizers(iron enriched, seems like they are all iron enriched…). I add the amount the bottle recommends each week when I change about 20-30% of the water. I then add 1 drop of fertilizer per 20gallons each day(this is obviously a guess , but I chose this amount because I was 99% certain that this would not be over-dosing)

I also want to add that my 29g is fine, no algae problems. I am adding co2 to it but I am adding the same amount to my 29g and 55g, seems like this is part of the problem…?

I suspect my definitoin of "heavily planted" is more like moderaltley planted to serous aquatic plant people,I am heavily planted based on how many plants I have and not how much they have grown. Since the co2 and new lights are very new, I dont have massive plant growth yet.....(Except the one side of my 55g, some plants are growing FAST)

I just tested all my waters:

55g set up for 3 months, never had any detectable readings of nitrite or ammonia! I used a “dirty” filter from my 29g and the tank cycled “instantly” with 11 rummy nose tetras in it. (I now know they are not a good fish for a new tank but I did manage to have zero nitrite ammonia since day one and low nitrate all the time too)– I did have my water readings confirmed at two local fish stores: KH 100 degrees, Ph 7.1-7.2 , nitrite and ammonia always <0.1(undetectable) and I keep nitrate below 10-12ppm. 4.0 wpg on one side(very heavily planted with fast growing wisteria, and other plants too), and 1.7 wpg on the other side(a few plants). I should add that the plants in my 55g have been growing like CRAZY since adding co2 and new lights 10 days ago, and the hair algae has reduced but is still growing….I have had one plant that has grown two+ feet in 10 days! I don’t know the species but it is a thick reed or grass like plant….The algae in this tank has been decreasing, and I suspect adding one more co2 DIY with the nutrafin bubble counter will get my co2 up to 20-25 ppm and fix the algae…do you agree? I will add that the 55g has a strong current in 2/3 of the tank, and light current in 1/3(heavily planted side).

29g heavily planted, running for 6-7 months, fast growing wisteria, (with no algae since adding co2 and new lights) 3.2wpg, added co2 and 2.0 wpg more three weeks ago. I used to have a bit of algae (green(cyanobacteria) and brown, and that sheet like algae); but since adding co2 and new lights 3 weeks ago algae is 99% gone….Ph = 7.1-7.2 KH=100. In this tank, I have turned off the co2 at night, by simply undoing the 2L bottle cap.....

21g moderatley planted with NO FAST GROWING PLANTS! (I guess this is another problem, perhaps I add some of my "out of control wisteria" from my 29g to this tank....), set up for 4 months. pH 7.2-7.3 KH =100 with 1.7 wpg. co2 added two weeks ago.

Sorry if too long, I tried to be brief, but did not succeed....
 
[snip]
I do dose fertilizers. I use a few different liquid aquarium plant fertilizers(iron enriched, seems like they are all iron enriched…).
[snip]

May be that's your problem. Do 50% water change and stop adding fertilizer...at least the one with iron. What type of substrate do you have?
 
[snip]
I do dose fertilizers. I use a few different liquid aquarium plant fertilizers(iron enriched, seems like they are all iron enriched…).
[snip]

May be that's your problem. Do 50% water change and stop adding fertilizer...at least the one with iron. What type of substrate do you have?
in the 21g I have a fine black substrate , it is like coarse "planar" sand, I say planar because each peice is flat but almost as fine as sand

in the 55g I have a very coarse substrate of 3/4 gravel, and then a finer surface substrate of 1/8 inch gravel.

Are you suggesting I have too much iron? or too much of some other nutrients?
 
[snip]
I do dose fertilizers. I use a few different liquid aquarium plant fertilizers(iron enriched, seems like they are all iron enriched…).
[snip]

May be that's your problem. Do 50% water change and stop adding fertilizer...at least the one with iron. What type of substrate do you have?
in the 21g I have a fine black substrate , it is like coarse "planar" sand, I say planar because each peice is flat but almost as fine as sand

in the 55g I have a very coarse substrate of 3/4 gravel, and then a finer surface substrate of 1/8 inch gravel.
The reason why asked you about the substrate is that some substrate such as Seachem Flourite (sp?), has significant of iron. This iron is unusable by plants and algae, but under anaerobic/acidic conditions, it will displace iron in a form that can be used by the plants (and algae!). But because anaerobic conditions only occur deep under the substrate, only the plants have access to the usable form of iron. As a result, you never (almost) have to dose with iron based fertilizer.

BTW, wisteria is a great plant for controlling algae. Combination of wisteria, hornwort, and java moss pretty much wiped out the algae from my tank (YMMV). Of course, they aren't exactly the prettiest plants you'll ever see, but anything beats algae.

Are you suggesting I have too much iron? or too much of some other nutrients?

I'm saying that you have excess nutrients in general; especially iron. Try reducing the fertilizer doses to the problem tanks. Stop using the iron based ones in problem tanks all togather. In your 21g, you don't have the light to necessitate constant fertilization anyway (unless you have no fish). Also, get a good phosphate test kit, and reduce the light to only about 8 or 9 hours.

As for your original question about the source of phosphate; the main source of phosphate in aquarium is fish food. If you look at the ingredients of almost every fish food, it will state fish meal as the main ingredient. Fish meal is just a grounded up fish with bones and scales. It contains significant amount of phosphate. Fish, unfortunately, uses only a small amount of phosphate in the food. You can guess where the rest of it goes.
 

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