Ph

CCFC Monkey

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I just visited my lfs, bescause a lot of the time when i purchase a batch of new fish, a couple or three seem to die, as this was a commom occurance, i took a sample of my water for them to test

nitrite 0 ppm

nitrate approx 20 ppm

ammonia nope

ph 7.6 apparently, but when tested with test strips reads 7.0


she tested the tank i was havin the swordtails from, this was 7.2

Surely if added slowly this wont affect a fish after a week

but recently noticed the start of another bloom of hair algae on some plants, so added anti-algae solution today..

maybe tis the algae causing the PH to go up??

any views or exprience with this?
 
Those anti algea remedies are like pouring poison in the tank, the chemicals themself are harsh enough on aquatic life but then the dead algea sucks all the available oxygen out of the water like a sponge as it starts to break down. I strongly recomend you stop using these chemicals in the tank.
 
and the nasty hair algae that apparently is pollutin my tank, and causing a ph rise, an dead fish?
 
have you added any wood recently?

that often causes the ph to rise
 
Dip strip test kits are notoriously unreliable, unless the test has been done with a good quality liquid test kit i wouldnt consider the results to be true.

Hair algea is caused by excess nutrients and excessive aeration, the tank is probably either overstocked or the fish are over fed and/or under maintained. You need to get test results for nitrate. Do you have any airstones or air powered ornaments in the tank?

Before the issue with the pH can be looked into you need to get an accurate pH test reading and to know the KH value of the water, or at least let us know which part of the UK you are in.
 
I'd like to add that algae (unless it's growing on your plants) benefits your tank because it helps remove harmful waste material from the water column. The only reason that everyone always wants to get rid of algae is (1) it's kind of gross looking and (2) it's indicative of other, more significant problems.
 
Algae photosynthesise.
The process of photosynthesis is a major acid consumer.
QED, if the algae are photosyntesising, then the pH will tend to rise (dep ion levels of algae of course).

This is not a bad thing. It will help to stabilse pH at a good level and stability is a very good thing. As long as pH is in the range 6 to 8 then don't worry imo.

pH etc and algae won't cause fish to die, although I read that some fish are sensitive to some algae, esp if you try to scrape it off & release a load into the water.

Dead algae are a worry, as they rot down, ammonia is released and that is nasty.
 
Algae photosynthesise.
The process of photosynthesis is a major acid consumer.
QED, if the algae are photosyntesising, then the pH will tend to rise (dep ion levels of algae of course).

Are you sure about this? As far as I know, the photosynthesis process doesn't contain any ionic compounds in its reaction:

6 CO2 + 12 H2O + photons --> C6H12O6 + 6 O2 + 6 H2O

In water, the CO2 is going to be present as both CO2 and carbonate, but plants/algae have to use CO2 as CO2 in the reaction. They can't use carbonate (CO3(-2)) or hydrogen carbonate (HCO3-) or carbonic acid (H2CO3). So they don't consume acid, photosynthesis uses neutral compounds.

Do you have a source that says otherwise?
 
i dont know chemical crap, but plants use carbon dioxide, carbon dioxide creats some sort of acid when in water so essentially you are taking out an acid, but the same effect would be done with lots of surface agiation i guess.... Nothing to worry about though. Just stop with the chemicals and get rid of the algae nutrient wise.
 
i dont know chemical crap, but plants use carbon dioxide, carbon dioxide creats some sort of acid when in water so essentially you are taking out an acid, but the same effect would be done with lots of surface agiation i guess.... Nothing to worry about though. Just stop with the chemicals and get rid of the algae nutrient wise.

Yes, carbon dioxide and water can make an acid:

CO2 + H2O <--> H2CO3

H2CO3 is carbonic acid, and it can disassociate into H+ and HCO3- (it usually doesn't disassociate twice into 2H+ and CO3(-2) )

But, the plants don't use carbonic acid, they use CO2 for photosynthesis. That is, the proton (H+) ion has to re-associate with HCO3-, to form H2CO3 again, which then disassociates back into water and carbon dioxide. The plants don't use anything acidic, only CO2 which is neutral.

It really depends on a lot of rates here, it depends on how quickly the water & carbon dioxide form carbonic acid, and then how quickly the carbonic acid dissociates. If the rates are fast, then the CO2 sink that results from the plants photosynthesizing would drive the equilibriums back. It would look like acids are being used up, though that isn't exactly what is happening. But, if the equilibrium rates are low, the levels of acid wouldn't even move while the plants use up the dissolved CO2. I'll try to see if I can't find these rates somewhere.
 
Dip strip test kits are notoriously unreliable, unless the test has been done with a good quality liquid test kit i wouldnt consider the results to be true.

Hair algea is caused by excess nutrients and excessive aeration, the tank is probably either overstocked or the fish are over fed and/or under maintained. You need to get test results for nitrate. Do you have any airstones or air powered ornaments in the tank?

Before the issue with the pH can be looked into you need to get an accurate pH test reading and to know the KH value of the water, or at least let us know which part of the UK you are in.

I already stated I tested with a strip tester, and my lfs tested with a liquid test kit. They believe my Ph to be 7.6, and my water hardness to be between the 120-180 ppm, And KH to be between 0ppm-trace. The tests I showed were the lfs (liquid kit) mine were pretty much the same(strip test).

Also the hair algae is growing on the plants, was seemin to be under control, but is startin to bloom again.

I maintain every week (clean sand, 25%-30% change, filter sprousing), a pinch of food in mornin, and a quarter or half of an algae wafer, in evening. And also shade my tank best i can from direct sunlight. Also try to feed only a small to nothin amount only on a saturday.

It is medium stocked with plants, and has a bubble disc. 100ltrs, has about 20 fish in:

5 Danios
2 Corys
10 tetras
1 molly
2 platys
albino plec

Also I have a hang on waterfall feature filter, and a small submerged rena filter working the tank.

So if you got any more views, be more than welcome to holla. Or tell me whats going wrong, you help is appreciatted.
 
If photosynthesis affects the pH to any significant degree, then my tanks are going to be all over the place, because they are all at least planted to 75% substrate coverage. I know this is not the case, as the only pH drop my tank experiences is 0.4 at night when the CO2 degasses. I no longer ever test my tanks unless I feel something is wrong, but I did monitor them in the early days to learn what is happening in there. Your algae is not affecting your pH to any worthwhile amount.

For algae to bloom, it needs a germination trigger. Some people will blame your algae on phosphates levels, and others will blame it on nitrates. These are both nutrients used by algae, but they do not trigger it. I actively add nitrates and phosphates to my planted tanks, but have never triggered algae in this way. I even increased the nitrate level in a healthy growing planted tank from my usual 20ppm to >50ppm for a protracted period with no increased plant growth and no algal bloom. I have also grown algae in a glass full of RO water, simply by adding sunlight, so depriving algae of nutrients will be nigh on impossible. So, if your tank is not receiving direct sunlight, it is unlikely that light is the cause, although it would be useful to know your light levels and photoperiod.

For your plants to have algae growing on them, then they must be unhealthy. I am not sure what you mean by medium stocked with plants, but if you have around a 50% coverage of plants, then having air bubbles is going to degass your water of CO2. The carbon from CO2 is essential to the photosynthesis of your plants, so if it is in short supply, your plants detect this and they start to produce RuBisCo to fix carbon. This requires a lot of energy from your plants, meaning that their growth is slowed down and deficiencies start to appear. If the deficiency is carbon, your plants will start to suffer quite quickly.

As a consequence, unhealthy plants leach ammonia. Ammonia is another good way of triggering algae in my experience, so with a constant supply of ammonia around your plants leafs algae will bloom.

Light levels are the major factor influencing growth rates in your tank, followed by avaialability of carbon. If your light levels are sufficiently low, then they won`t be driving a large nutrient uptake, so your tap water may well contain enough nitrates and phosphates to support the slower growth. You may want to consider adding trace elements via a reputable source such as Tropica Plant Nutrition.

My advice to you is to get rid of the air bubbles, keep cutting off the algae affected parts of the plants (plants love pruning), improve CO2 levels and add trace elements. I would also give up disturbing the substrate as well, if I were you, as this releases ammonia in to the water column and triggers algae. I have never vacuumed any of my tanks at any point and have never seen the point in a planted tank.

In summary, I think you need better CO2, better trace elements and to keep hassling the algae.

What would be interesting is a picture of the algae to see what type it is and how advanced it is, a list of the plant types you have, and your light levels and type.

Dave.
 

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