Ph And Alkalinity

[svirid]

Good day guys,

on my 28 gal tank I have upgraded my compact lights to USA sunpod MH 150W a month ago,
this weekend I went to pick up some new corals SPS corals or maybe some clams.
but the guys told me that I have to higher water alkalinity
I was really upset, waited for so long to get my lights and now alkalinity.

my water parameters:

temp: 78-79F
salinity: 1.025
phosphate: 0
magnesium: 1380mg/L
ca: 450
alkalinity: 2.5 meq/l
pH: 8.1

he told me to raise alkalinity to 4. I have Seachem pH buffer which raises pH to up to 8.3 and alkalinity.
I started to dose my tank very carefully little by little, hopefully I will raise it soon.
To tell u the truth I thought I can manage it the way I do Magnesium and Calcium.
I have it stable in the tank so I just add Ca, Magnesium right into the bucket with the fresh salt water.
So next time I do water change I dont have to add them into the tank and it worked quite well for me.

I thought I will check pH and alkalinity in the backet and raise it the way I need too, stupid me.
I see that its not that easy.
I tested water in the bucket it gave me
pH: 8.3
alkalinity: 3.5 meq/l

its the way I need, so can u please tell me why my tank has a lower parameters and what is the best way to control it?
add buffer all the time?

Thank you so much for your help.

 

[dilbert]

First of all, there are different opinions what the right alkalinity should be. Most people agree that it should be in the higher range, but 4 meq/l (i.e. 11.2 dKH) is already the upper limit what most people suggest.

Especially when having SPS in the tank, people do suggest this. But in the sea, the alkalinity is actually about 2.5 meq/l and corals do grow there, too, if I'm not completely mistaken.
Even the species that you can buy as aquacultured ones grow in the sea, too.

The unnatural high alkalinity is a reserve as your tank might get depleted of it and it doesn't get replaced like on a reef where always enough water, i.e. the ocean, is around.

People who use particular marine salts or people who are using natural seawater often encounter a low alkalinity.

Why the alkalinity gets consumed that rapidly, I don't know. In the case of my nano, I guess it gets neutralised by acids coming from overfeeding/overstocking. I add every night kalkwasser to the nano in order to not let plummet the ph and it never raises alkalinity nor calcium in the long run.

I would also say that a high alkalinity might be beneficical to the growth of SPS but it's surely not the most important parameter. More important are calcium, magnesium, and the rest that you obtain with regular water changes.

But you should be able to raise the alkalinity if you follow the instructions of your Seachem bottle. Something it is saying there about steps of 0.5 dKH or so.

 

[Crazy fishes]

It is normal for alkalinity to fall as it is the primary buffer stopping your tanks pH from shooting down. Every biological process produces acid and the 'alkalinity' (which refers to bicarbonate and carbonate largely) is the way nature soaks up 'acid' to prevent such a fall in pH. Now there are a hundred and one ways in which to keep 'alkalinity' levels up and people find what works for them. Most people advise Kalkwasser as it gives calcium and 'alkalinity' in a balanced ratio. Skifletch uses this method and I am sure he will explain the principles and procedures for that if you were to PM him or possibly if he saw this thread. I don't use kalkwasser and it works beautifully for me. I use seachem reef salt which maintains calcium at the correct level and then dose every couple of days or so, after checking the water pH and dKh, with seachem reef carbonate (raises carbonate alkalinity) with the required amount according to instructions. It says 'no more than 20ml per day, each cap is 5ml and raises alkinity by 0.25 meq/l (dKh 0.7)'. I have found that for my system 3 days sees a fall of 3-4 dKh which means I use 4 caps i.e 20mls the maximum. As you are now going to expand into the SPS territory you will need the upper limits of calcium and alkalinity because SPS use these minerals to make their skeleton (as do the other corals but arguably not as much of a drain). Remember as well as plenty of light and prefect water chemistry SPS also require much higher flow rates.

Hope this helps and good luck

Regards

 

[SkiFletch]

Well this is an easy one. Low alkalinity with high magnesium and good calcium is the simplest thing to fix . Just add baking soda (sodium bicarbonate) to your topoff water for the next few days. Try to average maybe a 1/4 cup of baking soda in a day. CF is right, I do dose kalkwasser in a very low mixture and use baking soda and calcium chloride to "tweak" levels

 

[svirid]

It is normal for alkalinity to fall as it is the primary buffer stopping your tanks pH from shooting down. Every biological process produces acid and the 'alkalinity' (which refers to bicarbonate and carbonate largely) is the way nature soaks up 'acid' to prevent such a fall in pH. Now there are a hundred and one ways in which to keep 'alkalinity' levels up and people find what works for them. Most people advise Kalkwasser as it gives calcium and 'alkalinity' in a balanced ratio. Skifletch uses this method and I am sure he will explain the principles and procedures for that if you were to PM him or possibly if he saw this thread. I don't use kalkwasser and it works beautifully for me. I use seachem reef salt which maintains calcium at the correct level and then dose every couple of days or so, after checking the water pH and dKh, with seachem reef carbonate (raises carbonate alkalinity) with the required amount according to instructions. It says 'no more than 20ml per day, each cap is 5ml and raises alkinity by 0.25 meq/l (dKh 0.7)'. I have found that for my system 3 days sees a fall of 3-4 dKh which means I use 4 caps i.e 20mls the maximum. As you are now going to expand into the SPS territory you will need the upper limits of calcium and alkalinity because SPS use these minerals to make their skeleton (as do the other corals but arguably not as much of a drain). Remember as well as plenty of light and prefect water chemistry SPS also require much higher flow rates.

Hope this helps and good luck

Regards

I used to use Reef Chrystals salt but it had a very low parameters in Magnesium and Ca, now I use Seachem Reef Salt same as u and it has great paramaters but as it appears I started to have problem with the pH 8.1 before it was atleast 8.2 and alkl I had it 3.5meq/L now its 2.5.

As u said u add 'seachem reef carbonate', I do add Seachem pH buffer which raises pH upto 8.3 tops and alkl.

Well this is an easy one. Low alkalinity with high magnesium and good calcium is the simplest thing to fix . Just add baking soda (sodium bicarbonate) to your topoff water for the next few days. Try to average maybe a 1/4 cup of baking soda in a day. CF is right, I do dose kalkwasser in a very low mixture and use baking soda and calcium chloride to "tweak" levels

THank you, so u are saying I just have to add regilar baking soda from the kitchen?
I do have a 12 liters bucket of fresh water that is pump into the tank when needed, I have 28gal tank,
so how much apx of soda shoudl I add to the 12 L?

Thank you so much.

 

[SkiFletch]

Well if it were my tank, I'd add half a cup of baking soda to either a glass or bottle somewhere around a pint. I'd stir that up to dissolve the baking soda, and add that tonight (whole thing). Then tomorrow I'd see where my alk was and decide how much more baking soda I thought I needed.

Edit: try and add it in a high-flow area like near the outlet of a powerhead, sump intake, somethin like that

 

[svirid]

It looks like after 3 days slow dosing my pH and alklinity are going up.
ph: 8.2
alkl: 3meq/L (desired 4)

I was reading about the Seach pH/Alkl buffer Ca Alklinity and limewater as far as I can see
lime water can replace those two. Is that true? I am thinking on how to maintain stable levels of Ca and ph,Alkl
If I buy Kalkwasser isntead of the Ca and pH buffer will it be better just to add it to the top off regularly?

I could not find any soda at home, will ask my wife tomorrow. So as u are saying soda is 100% not gonna kill my tank?
and can be used instead of the limewater?

Thank you.

 

[kj23502]

I've used baking soda in my fw tanks with no ill effects. Just had happy african cichlids

 

[SkiFletch]

True, Kalkwasser replaces calcium and carbonate and tends to raise the pH of your tank. You must however take care with Kalkwasser since its introduction into freshwater will drastically increase the pH. pH of 14 is possible and common when using kalkwasser. Therefore, it cannot be added in large doses or quickly, it must be dripped into the tank or metered with a peristaltic dosing pump. If you do not add it slowly you can spike your pH and realliy hurt your corals/fish. And of course the smaller the tank, the easier it is to spike the pH.

 

[dilbert]

I am using a digital ph meter where the probe is always submerged in the tank. When the probe is always in the tank, even the cheap ones are fairly accurate and I check them occasionally with ph calibration solution or use the Salifert's ph test to doublecheck it.

Also, if you add kalkwasser manually, you have to check where to drip it to avoid that some critters get a "full load".


It would be quite reckless if you don't check the ph even if you follow the instructions on the bottle.

 

[dilbert]

I just saw a link to a tank that runs with ph 7.8 - 8.1 and alkanity 7 dKH (= 2.5 meq/l). It's a stunning SPS tank.

<a href="http/reefkeeping.com/issues/2008-07/totm/index.php" target="_blank">http/reefkeeping.com/issues/2008-07/totm/index.php</a>

 

[Crazy fishes]

I have heared about this, it is frequent with tanks in which the alkalinity and pH are controlled with CO2 reactors. They have pH as low as 7.8 as you say dilbert. I believe the reactors have a few potential pitfalls (like most things) which means they are better for larger tanks where water chemistry fluctuates slower. Not a means for your average nanoer.

Regards

 

[Musho3210]

Altering pH using chemicals while all your other levels are fine can be very dangerous. I've found pH to be unimportant and during the rare occaision where i test water (about once every 6 months) i dont test for pH.