Overstocking

[fat bob]

Hi All
I have been keeping fish for approx 2 years and am now the proud owner of a 4' bow front tank. Approx 50 gals )

TANK CONDITIONS.

I use pea gravel subsrtate and a built in filter system. The tank is run at 25 C, has live plants (which have never grown very well although have got better lately) and use timers to give 11 hours from 2 36" tubes (One Solar Tropic and one solar colour) and 1 1/2 hrs in the evening from an 18" moon glow bulb. I feed a mix of flake bloodworm whole mussel and wafer. I perform a 25% water change fortnightly and use a tank vacum.

Lately I have had problems with 2 or 3 fish breaking out in apparently different diseases all at once. For instance at the moment I have pop eye, fungus and/or slime disease and about 5 others hanging off the surface. I think I may have overstocked my tank as I have a fondness for the smaller pleco's but as they tend to be out of sight most of the time I think I may have underestimated just how many fish this tank can hold.

I have ...,

1 Siamese fighting male & 1 female
1 Dwarf Gourami male and 3 females
4 Rams (adolescent no more than 4 cm)
4 swordtails
4 cory's
1 red tailed black shark (8-10cm)
1 syodontis eupterus (20 cm)
3 bumble bee gobi's
1 Khuli loach
1 Black lancer catfish (juvenile 6cm)
2 Gold nugget pleco's
1 net pleco
1 Queen arabesque

My questions are...,

Too many fish ?

I was thinking of loosing 2 gourami's 1 cory and 2 swordtails would that be enough ?

Could overstocking be causing the disease outbreaks ?

With multiple disease outbreaks which do you treat first, the one that looks most severe or should cirtain things be tackled first ?

Many of the treatments cant be used simultaneously and that could mean watching one disease worsen for up to 2 weeks whilst treating another - is there any medication that can be mixed ?

Many thanks

Fat bob

 

[crazie.eddie]

Sounds like you do have an overstocked tank.

An improperly overstocked tank will lead to:
- Elevated ammonia
- Elevated nitrate
- Low oxygen levels
- Harassment from other fish
- Lack of hiding places
- Lack of enough fish to provide schooling

Which is the similar causes of stress. As stated in PetEducation.com's article on "Stress and Fish Health"...

Stress is accompanied by the release of the hormone cortisol, which is responsible for many of the negative health effects associated with stress. In addition to having a negative effect on growth, reproduction, and digestion, chronic stress will also lower the ability of the immune system to respond effectively and fully. This lowered immune response is what allows parasites, bacteria, and fungi to infect a stressed fish and cause disease and death.

Are the fish getting the diseases new fish? If so, then you should place them in a QT tank for at least 2 weeks.

What type of filter are you using?

 

[fat bob]

Its a plastic unit sealed onto the back of the tank, the inside is partitioned off into 3 sections water is drawn in one side and up over the top of the first section wall and down through 4 layers of foam medium and a bag of those coral like stones (I can never remember the name ) and then under the second wall and drawn up and out by a fluval powerhead.

Do you think my estimation on fish reduction will be enough ?

 

[crazie.eddie]

Is this 50 US gals or 50 UK gals?

Also, do you have a pic & model # for your filter? I'm trying to figure out if it is the right size for your tank.


Oops. I forgot to include....Welcome to the forum!

 

[fat bob]

I have got pics but how do I attatch to this post ??

 

[Cheese Specialist]

I have got pics but how do I attatch to this post ??

Use the 'browse' button at the bottom of the post you write and find it on your computer.

I think if you think you are overstocked (I'm not sure you are) then do weekly rather than fortnightly water chages.

As you said "fornightly" (rather than 'biweekly') I suspect your tank size was in UK gallons=60 US gallons.

 

[jams.alaskan]

Hi fat bob - for 50 gallons you are not Too terrible over stocked, for the sizes you listed, but some of them will grow and bring you closer to that mark... When is the last time you added fish? I'm wondering if some new commer brought in these problems. Perhaps for the time being you should change your water more frequently and test it to see if maybe you have a problem there. Ammonia, Nitrite, and nitrate tests would seem a good idea. Have you been treating the tank for any of the things you have mentioned and iff so what have you used and for how long.

ALASKA

And yes, Welcome to the forum.

 

[fat bob]

sorry, yes its uk gallons but I am at a loss disease - wise. even over the course of today the surface hanging has stopped but other fish are now going pale (although they might be hungry).

my filter is shown below (I hope !)

As you see on the left is the powerhead drawing water through the system, the centre is where the medium is placed and the inlet section on the right holds the heater ensuring even heat distribution whilst also preventing burns. I have not seen this before or since buying this unit and I think it's amazing combining the benefits of the principals of undergravel systems with the ease and convinience of an internal unit without the mess of an external one. Top bolox if you ask me !

I am sure i have seen heavier stocked tanks than mine but they didn't include the pleco's and they are all happy enough the majority of the time. There are pleanty of hidey holes for them (more pics in next few posts) and I have just increased daylight timer to 12 hrs a day plus the moon glow for 1 1/2 hrs in the evening which the plants seem to enjoy.

last fish to go in was the lancer but these problems don't correlate time wise, if the info I have read on them is correct though he's my excuse to buy a 6 or 8 foot tank provided reports of 30 - 60 cm aren't exaggerated (anyone know ?).

As I said I will post a few pics of the tank in a few minutes, please let me know what you think (enought plants, hidey holes etc)

 

[fat bob]

here goes

 

[fat bob]

that big black thing at the back is the filter unit

 

[fat bob]

nice shot this

 

[Cheese Specialist]

I think your tank looks great and not overcrowded at all. I think it could do with being topped up though

 

[crazie.eddie]

First of all... NICE TANK!

Next...You may not be overstocked now, but you will in the future, as you can see from the sizes I listed for you fish when they get to be adult size...

1 Siamese fighting male & 1 female = 8" @ 4" each
1 Dwarf Gourami male and 3 females = 6" @2" each
4 Rams (adolescent no more than 4 cm) = 12" @3" each
4 swordtails = 16" @4" each
4 cory's = 8" @2" each
1 red tailed black shark (8-10cm) = 5"
1 synodontis eupterus (20 cm) = 7"
3 bumble bee gobi's = 1.5"
1 Khuli loach = 3.5"
1 Black lancer catfish (juvenile 6cm) = 8"
2 Gold nugget pleco's = 12" @6" each
1 net pleco = 4.5"
1 Queen arabesque = 4"

This equals to about 95.5" for your fish. The normaly stocking guide is 1" for each 1 gallon, which applies for fish under 3". Larger fish should be stocked, at the most, 1" for each 5 gallons of water. Therefore, you will probably need a tank over 100 US gallons to keep the fish when they reach adult size.

Things to keep in mind...
- The bumble bee gobi prefers brackish waters and may be food for the synodontis eupterus, red tailed black shark, or the black lancer catfish.
- Too many bottom dwellers in such a small area of a tank. IMO. Pl*cos can get aggressive towards other bottom dwellers, which will include other p*cos and catfish.
- Kuhli loaches will do better in small groups.
- The Queen Arabesque pl*co will lose it's nice color once it becomes an adult.
- Once the catfishes get large enough, the kuhli might look a worm to it.
- Ple*cos produce alot of waste. Your filter looks to be a built in filter for the tank, which may only be able to support a normally stocked tank.

An improperly overstocked tank can lead to fish stress. According to PetEducation's Stress and Fish Health...

Stress is accompanied by the release of the hormone cortisol, which is responsible for many of the negative health effects associated with stress. In addition to having a negative effect on growth, reproduction, and digestion, chronic stress will also lower the ability of the immune system to respond effectively and fully. This lowered immune response is what allows parasites, bacteria, and fungi to infect a stressed fish and cause disease and death.

Though your fish appears not to be overcrowded, your fish may think it is. As was suggested earlier, if you could use a test kit and provide ammonia, nitrITE/nitrATE, and pH readings. If you notice that your ammonia and/or nitrITEs are high (above 0), perform daily water changes of 15% (at the most) with lite gravel cleanings.

 

[fat bob]

Thanks people, nice to hear it looks good from those who know ! As far as filling it goes I have left the level there purposley with the intention of getting some plants that grow out of the water, also it helps with the airation of the water. I have obtained some more test kits and will do all tests later today ( I am a house husband with three kids - 8, 4, and 5 months, all boys !- and its easter hols so I aint got a whole lotta time during the day !).

Finally many thanks for the welcome greetings from all !

fat bob