Otocinclus 'not Eating' Or 'not Hungry'?

[soritan]

So, about a week or two ago, I got myself two otocincluses (otto s), and one immediately went and became shrimp food, but the other one is still clinging to life.

It seems that, no matter what veggies I plunk in there, raw, blanched, boiled soggy, he just won't eat it.


When I first got both ottos, they had red on the sides of their 'faces', and their belly looked a bit inflamed -- not a healthy pink, a real red. He stopped being red for a little while, and actually seemed ok, even venturing into the middle of the tank at times. But now the red is back.


How can I tell if he's not interested in food, because he's eaten his fill on algae, or if he's sick? I've tried cucumber, romaine lettuce, and seaweed strips, so far. I've heard zuchini mentioned often, is zuchini somehow more appetizing than what I've been offering?

I'm quite pleased that he's still alive, and I'd like to keep him that way.

 

[jollysue]

Hi, Soritan,

Otos are notorious for just dropping down dead-bang! They don't aclimate well and any changes in their environment can be the trigger to a farewell. Their preferred food really is algae. If your tank doesn't have any algae then there is a potential problem. Mashed pea is recommended for a sick oto. I got a covey of the little guys sent to me once. One reached me sunken and not eating. Thinking that he might already be starving, I put him on a piece of Hikari algae tab. He did indeed lick it (or whatever.) He looked better, got up hung on the side. Next day he was on his back on the bottom dying. I took him to the lfs. The considered opinion was that he was constipated after starving and needed some pea. But it was too late.

I have taken a break from otos and pygmy cories. for the momement. I've not killed all of my pygmies, but the count is low.

Make sure you keep a clean tank with plenty of green algae if you plan to keep otos. If your oto is healthy, then he is swimming occasionally to a new spot to lick at the algae. If he is very very sick he is hanging on the side at the bottom of the tank with his little tail to one side resting on the bottom. Keep the temp stable/warm. He will appreciate an airstone.

Frequently it is asked if his behind is red or inflamed. Red at the temple/cheeks/gills is ok. You know if it is a sick red.

I have most often been recommended smashed pea for sick oto--just like betta.

Edit:

Oh! And, also, I don't think I could tell if an oto did eat some of the lettuce or whatever.

 

[soritan]

I had read that algae isn't really a good source of nutrients, and that I should be supplimenting their diet with other veggies, so I went out and got some -- thinking that maybe they were dying of starvation.

He is definately eating algae, though, but the tank is now clean of edible algae. I only have beard algae left, and ottos don't eat beard algae (hair algae, it's distant cousin, is fair game).

He's still alive! Almost had him for two weeks, that's a record for ottos.

My tank is always clean, he's in a good place, but the dang things are just so fragile, they don't make the trip to my tank. I think I acclimated this one for 2 hours, or so, with a 1 oz shotglass, a little at a time, every 10 minutes -- he's the same otto I posted about last time, where people thought they had septima (sp). ( http/www.fishforums.net/index.php?showtopic=117768 )

The red he's got is basically at his eye, which could be equated with 'temple' area, so maybe this is just his natural coloring. I've never seen healthy ottos photographed with just a sudden blotch of red on their body, but maybe it's just because it's hard to photograph.


He's almost been alive long enough for me to risk naming him! Every time I look at him I say, "he's not dead yet!" Or if I can't find him, I look all over and think, "ah, the ghost shrimp must have ate him while I was at work..." and then he'll nose out a few hours later. I suppose it'd be in poor taste to name a fish a complete sentance. "Not Dead Yet" is too wordy, in any case...

 

[blue_ram]

I had read that algae isn't really a good source of nutrients, and that I should be supplimenting their diet with other veggies, so I went out and got some -- thinking that maybe they were dying of starvation.

Algae shouldn't be the only source, but it should be the primary source. My otos won't touch blanched spinich or zucchini, when there's algae. BTW, cucumbers and icebeg lettuce don't have much nutrients, so it's not recommended.

He is definately eating algae, though, but the tank is now clean of edible algae. I only have beard algae left, and ottos don't eat beard algae (hair algae, it's distant cousin, is fair game).

He's still alive! Almost had him for two weeks, that's a record for ottos.

My oldest oto is almost two years old. But I usually lose about half the otos I buy, during the first week. I sometimes lose one or two after that, but it's uncommon. I don't know how long they live though.

[snip]
The red he's got is basically at his eye, which could be equated with 'temple' area, so maybe this is just his natural coloring. I've never seen healthy ottos photographed with just a sudden blotch of red on their body, but maybe it's just because it's hard to photograph.

I've never seen a healthy oto with blotchy red patch. It definitely sounds like he's got some form of infection/inflamation.

 

[soritan]

Eh, I suppose I should clarify, I didn't mean ottos in general, I meant ottos for me. He's my 3rd otto, the first died in about 5 days, the second died in 1 day, and I've had him since the 3rd, so he's been with me for almost two weeks. That's the longest an otto has lasted me.

The red patch seems to get less and more, as time goes on. Perhaps it's an infection he's been fighting all this time? I know he's had the patch on his face since day one, hour one, since Before I ever put him in my tank, and my other two ottos had them, as well.

He's probably got algae in there, somewhere, but it's not visible algae. Nothing except beard algae, as far as my eye can see.

I'm really pulling for the little guy. I like him and his very interesting hair -- I didn't realize ottos had hair on their body, like little strands of fur all over. Very much like a cat, yes.

It gets very depressing always having to pull little dead bodies out of there.

It's funny, I read all over that shrimp are delicate and can't take this, that, or the other thing, but so far, I haven't lost a single shrimp in that tank, and in fact they're breeding.

 

[blue_ram]

[snip]
The considered opinion was that he was constipated after starving and needed some pea. But it was too late.

I don't see how oto could be constipated after starving. Although the current popular theory is that the internal bacteria that breaks down the algae in oto's stomach dies when oto starves during transit. When oto finally gets to eat again, there aren't any intestinal/stomach bacteria to keep oto nourished. It sounds pretty good, until you start to think about it. Those bacterias/protozoans in some of herbivore's stomach are there to break down cellulose; something not digestible by vertebrates. But I don't think algae has such complex cellulose structure that needs bacteria or protozoans to break them down. Otherwise omnivorous fish like livebearers wouldn't be able to eat them.

I have taken a break from otos and pygmy cories. for the momement. I've not killed all of my pygmies, but the count is low.

That's odd, I've had pygmy cories only once, but of about dozen I had, I only lost one. Of course, there are several pygmy cory species. May be you bought the 'wrong species'.

[snip]
I have most often been recommended smashed pea for sick oto--just like betta.

Problem with peas are that they go bad really quick. It's fine for livebearers and maybe cichlids/anabantoids, who can gobble it up before it hits the bottom. But bottom feeders/otos require some time to find them; peas can go bad before they can discover them.

Edit:

Oh! And, also, I don't think I could tell if an oto did eat some of the lettuce or whatever.

Actually they get quite plump, if they eat enough.

 

[jollysue]

Well, let's see. Excuse me, Soritan, while I answer some finger pointing.

#1
The oto that died in the group of imported wild caught from drsfosterandsmith, I assumed was starving because it was stomach sunken and weak. It was lying on the bottom when I got him out of the shipping package. I assumed that it was hungry, because when I placed it on a piece of Hikari wafer, it licked or whatever it is that they do. It then regained strength and got on the side of the tank at the bottom insteads of lying on the floor. The next day it was sick again and I continued to give it Hikari wafer. When I got an answer from the forum they recommended cooked, smashed pea. But it was too late. The oto died. The way I figure--knowing nothing--is that the system shut down after a point during the fast. Giving it Hikari wafer stimulated and nurished the system, but the sudden influx of food shocked the system and the oto was unable to process the food and got constipated. Have you ever fasted? It is common to get warnings to go slow getting back on solid food after a prolonged fast.

#2
Maybe the pygmies got eaten. Maybe they starved with their little mouths. Whatever, I have not been very successful with them. Maybe they are sensitive to poor conditions. I've been battling a bad culimnaris outbreak for about 6 months and finally have it under control, but I lost a lot of fish. I also just moved which is hard on fish. The last of my otos disapeared in the move. I still have a small school of pygmies fractured through several tanks, because I was unable to catch them.

I put otos, pygmies and pandas in the same category: lovely to have, sensitive to conditions and hard to keep.

#3
So, even though the best hobbiests I know have recommended peas repeatedly as a remedy for constipation and intestinal ills, you disagree, blue_ram. That's fine, and you have a welcome to do that. But , please, suggest an alternative.

#4
Yes, a healthy oto is a plump and sassy oto. But what does an oto grazed lettuce look like?

A healthy dialog is about understanding one another and exchanging information, not looking for ways to discredit folk.


So, Soritan, you know the first rule of fish buying, Buy healthy fish; certainly you should have better odds than you are getting from your lfs. Make sure the water parameters, temps, etc are good for oto. I think they are a sensitive fellow and don't tolerate poor water conditions or stressful tank conditions. With me I am always missing something. I need fish a little more forgiving of my bumbles.

Edit: Sorry, I see you did give some recommendations. Although I don't know if you are recommending for a sick oto. I must say though, pea has always been the veggie recommended most by the most experienced on this forum to me. Still they do as you say go bad quickly and must be removed.

 

[Amerce]

Try some broccoli, my veggie eaters all love this as do some of the other fish. I microwave it for about 10 seconds just to cook it and then put it into the tank. Remove it though afte a day. The plec loves it so the otto's can't go far wrong with either.

 

[soritan]

in any case, my otto is not fat, and doesn't seem to be healthy, by the standard definition of the word, no matter what amount of finger pointing.

i'm quite glad that he is not dead, in my tank, as of yet, but after i treat my tank for beard algae, and after i move over to a sand substrate, my algae population will be deminished, and i'd prefer not to have my otto die.

have i no hope of keeping my little guy alive, despite his rather obvious survivors' spirit? or shall i begin callously nagging my LPS for a refund, today?

ah, nevermind.

apparently, my environment is not good for ottos, although i have 1 in a 10g tank, and my params are rather consistanty 0-0-5 (at the expense of my plants).

i should just stick to shrimp.

 

[jollysue]

I'm sorry Soritan, I did not have your permission to respond to the heckling. ) I should have been content.

I meant no reflection on you. And if you are at peace with your lfs, that's as it should be.

I'm sorry about your oto. Is he not fat? Yes. I think fat and sassy is the yardstick for otos. I didn't mean to go after the lfs, just avoid the sick fish. I've paid a dear price to learn that lesson the hard way. I should have listeded to the pundits in the first place who warned, "Only buy healthy looking fish!"

I hope you get someone here who knows more than we do.

Oh1 Congrats on the breeding ghost shimp. It's probably all the juicy oto you have been feeding them.

Sorry, that was in bad taste. B)

 

[soritan]

I should have listeded to the pundits in the first place who warned, "Only buy healthy looking fish!"

I hope you get someone here who knows more than we do.

Oh1 Congrats on the breeding ghost shimp. It's probably all the juicy oto you have been feeding them.

Sorry, that was in bad taste. B)

*ba dum ching*

I've said it before, I'll say it again: local LPS do not allow me to point and choose fish. I just get, what I get. In order to earn the privilage of pointing and choosing, I'll need to fly 4 hours East of where I live, and honestly, at some point, I gotta try local.

Aaanyways, my fragile, delicate, "can't keep 'em alive" little ghost shrimp are fat 'n happy. I can only hope for the same for my Ottos.

I think it's actually the bloodworms that's doin't for them. Spoiled brats. :\


If this little guy dies, I think I'll just give up on Ottos. Some fish just can't make the trip.