Otocinclus catfish compatibility?

[Quin]

I have a plan for a project tank that includes starting out with 10-15 cherry shrimp, 4/5 endlers, and a single nerite snail in a 10g aquarium. My tap water's pH is 7.5-8.0 (though I'm considering natural and consistent remedies to high pH for this tank, if they exist) my kh is 240+ and my gh is 30-60. All of these measurements are reliable both from the tap and in my current betta tank.

I'm wondering what the compatibility for about 4 otocinclus are in my tank? I've read many articles and watched videos on their care, and all agree that they're peaceful but many say that they can die easily (I believe it's because of their issues with starvation, but there may be more). I'm not interested in purchasing fish slated for death, especially since this will only be my second tank so I'm a beginner, but I really like them.

I'm also worried about having two algae eaters in the tank, though I believe otos prefer scouring plants and a snail would only scour surfaces that can support their weight.

I am very interested in keeping this tank understocked, but I'm having a hard time visualizing how many fish are too many in a 10g. If the addition of 4+ oto cats are too much I will scrap the idea

 

[Crispii]

I personally wouldn't do otocinclus in a 10. IMO, they need at least a 20-gallon aquarium or higher.

 

[Essjay]

Is the GH 30 to 60 ppm? If it is, that is soft water and I wouldn't keep endlers either as they need hard water. But if you use an additive such as Rift Lake salts to 'harden' the water, they would be OK. However, this should not be done without careful thought. You would have to add exactly the right amount of the salts at each water change to keep the GH stable.

 

[Quin]

I personally wouldn't do otocinclus in a 10. IMO, they need at least a 20-gallon aquarium or higher.

Is the 10g minimum for otos like the supposed 2.5g bare min for bettas, in that it's not really a comfortable minimum? All sites I visited said 10 due to their tiny size but I'd rather not add them if it's not going to suit their needs. Especially with the other fish

 

[Crispii]

Is the 10g minimum for otos like the supposed 2.5g bare min for bettas, in that it's not really a comfortable minimum? All sites I visited said 10 due to their tiny size but I'd rather not add them if it's not going to suit their needs. Especially with the other fish

They need to be in a group and having a group in a 10 would just be pushing it.

 

[Quin]

Is the GH 30 to 60 ppm? If it is, that is soft water and I wouldn't keep endlers either as they need hard water. But if you use an additive such as Rift Lake salts to 'harden' the water, they would be OK. However, this should not be done without careful thought. You would have to add exactly the right amount of the salts at each water change to keep the GH stable.

I do believe it's ppm yes. Does the kh have anything to do with the water hardness? It's super high despite the low gh

If not, are there alternatives that fit my parameters? I'm really interested in tiny or smaller fish

 

[Quin]

They need to be in a group and having a group in a 10 would just be pushing it.

That's good to know, thank you. I won't put any otos in this tank

 

[Essjay]

It is GH that affects fish directly. GH is the amount of calcium and magnesium in the water and we should aim to keep fish that come from water with a similar GH to our water.
KH is the measure of the amount of buffer in the water - this is a chemical term for something that stabilises pH. KH does not affect fish directly but only in the way it affects the pH. When there is high KH the pH is very stable but when KH is very low the pH can change easily.

 

[Quin]

It is GH that affects fish directly. GH is the amount of calcium and magnesium in the water and we should aim to keep fish that come from water with a similar GH to our water.
KH is the measure of the amount of buffer in the water - this is a chemical term for something that stabilises pH. KH does not affect fish directly but only in the way it affects the pH. When there is high KH the pH is very stable but when KH is very low the pH can change easily.

Ah, so knowing that about my KH nothing will likely consistently alter my pH then? I was wondering why the tannins hadn't reduced the pH in my tank yet despite the amount. I'll keep an eye out for fish in the appropriate range. We decided endlers because we assumed I had very hard water, but I'm glad to realize this is not true before moving forward with the plan. If I can't find any suitable fish I'm okay with it just being an invert tank

 

[Byron]

Repeating some of what others have posted, the GH is soft so you are suited to soft water fish species. There are many options we can consider for a 10g. The pH is less of a concern, and it will or should bee stable if the KH is what you posted, and that is better than fluctuating pH for fish.

The otos suit the water parameters, but I agree that they will fare better in a larger space. With this fish it is not active swimming that dictates more space, but their inherent shoaling/feeding habits. I know this is not easy to explain...when one just understands fish physiology it is usually difficult to explain why "x" or "y" is important.

 

[Quin]

Repeating some of what others have posted, the GH is soft so you are suited to soft water fish species. There are many options we can consider for a 10g. The pH is less of a concern, and it will or should bee stable if the KH is what you posted, and that is better than fluctuating pH for fish.

The otos suit the water parameters, but I agree that they will fare better in a larger space. With this fish it is not active swimming that dictates more space, but their inherent shoaling/feeding habits. I know this is not easy to explain...when one just understands fish physiology it is usually difficult to explain why "x" or "y" is important.

I am definitely willing to accept that my aquarium isn't the best for different species of fish, and that there's different reasons why. I was half ready to jump ship with the otos anyways due to stock capacity, but I am glad to hear that they would be suitable if I ever got a larger tank. They're cute little fellas!

The endlers are a little disappointing to hear about but I have a choice now to harden my water, find other fish, or stick with shrimp and a snail. If you have any suggestions or favorites please let me know!

 

[Byron]

I am definitely willing to accept that my aquarium isn't the best for different species of fish, and that there's different reasons why. I was half ready to jump ship with the otos anyways due to stock capacity, but I am glad to hear that they would be suitable if I ever got a larger tank. They're cute little fellas!

The endlers are a little disappointing to hear about but I have a choice now to harden my water, find other fish, or stick with shrimp and a snail. If you have any suggestions or favorites please let me know!

Hardening the water for Endlers is fine, but just be aware that they are about the only fish you could have here, given the resulting hardness and the space. If you leave the water soft, your options are considerable, though not including Endlers. Some species to check out:
Hyphessobrycon amandae (Ember Tetra)
Boraras brigittae (Chilli or Mosquito Rasbora) or one of the other five Boraras species.
there are several other "nano" cyprinid species that other members can suggest
Corydoras pygmaeus (pygmy cory) provided you have sand substrate

On a very different note, dwarf puffers in a species tank.

 

[JuiceBox52]

what about a shoal of microrasboras or ember tetras? maybe some pygmy corydoras too