Open soapbox

[Tatya]

Okay guys,

I've not heard of the hybrids before - what are they and why are you so anti them?

 

[cichlidmaster]

Glad you asked...And I will be happy to answer this...

In a nut shell "Hybrids" are fish that are manmade...meaning someone took two totally different species and crossbred them to come up with a "NEW" fish.

I don't say new species because it cannot be considered a "New Species"

The so called "Flowerhorn" is a prime example of a hybrid. So is the "red Texas" and "parrot" cichlid.

These fish do not and probably could never occur in the wild.

Most of these fish are made in petri dishes in a lab somewhere is Asia. No I am not bashing Asia, it just happens to be where most of these "creatures" are made

Now we all know that hybrids can happen in our tanks..this is due to the fact that we may place several species together that closely resemble each other (this happens quite often with Africans), but to INTENTIONALLY cross fish to "make a buck" is, well to put in in a "family oriented way" is wrong.

And please don't give me the argument that a lot of Aulonocara color varients are "Hybrids" they are not. They come about from selective breeding...and even if two different ones are crossed...it's not a hybrid since they are from the same species....keep in mind this is how a lot of the newly discovered Aulonocara species come about in nature.

Wheww told you not to get me started on this....OK once again coming down off my soapbox...

I would welcome all opinions on this topic as it is one that is near and dear to my heart...as if you could'nt tell...

I can feel my post count rising as I type this..thanks Tatya    :laugh:  :laugh:

 

[Tatya]

So they are like ligers/tigons or mules then?

Which has to lead to the question - are they also sterile?

 

[cichlidmaster]

In the case of the "parrot" the initial reports were "yes" they were sterile, but I have seen reports that they have since been spawned. How true this is I don't know.

In the case of the flowerhorn...if you were to read one asian breeders web site he contadicts himself....

In one sentance he states no two flowerhorns can be placed in the same tank as they will fight to the death...and in the next sentance he states the conditions for breeding these fish.

Now I ask you...if putting two of these together in the same tank will lead to the untimely demise of one or the other...then how in the world can you breed them???

I know you can put a divider in, but according to the breeder they will start to fight immediately upon seeing each other.

Perhaps he just meant two males will fight...I don't know and I really don't care as I have no interest in these fish at all.

Now I have had Africans crossbreed that I thought had no chance in hell of having a viable spawn...but to my suprise they did. Yes I raised the fry up and spawned them to see if they would spawn true (this was in my experimental breeding days and these fish were NEVER made available for sale).

So you see some species can crossbreed and still have fertile spawns.

 

[mostanks]

the only problem i have w/hybrids are when they sell a "heart tail"parrot c'mon they know that thing is deformed.now that is wrong.if it doen't have a chance to live a long "normal" life then it should not be sold,but other than that i don't see a problem esp when they look like that red tx.



"everything ain't for everybody"

 

[cichlidmaster]

Ok before I go any further in this thread, I would like to say once again that the opinions I state are my own and I don't hold anyone else to my standards when it comes to hybrids and please don't take my comments or opinions personally...so with that said...here goes...

Ok What about "Jelly Bean" parrots. These are sold as a hybrid between a convict and a blood parrot.

Does anyone see anything wrong with this?? I mean we all see "Hot Pink and Bright Purple" fish in their native waters all the time, don't we.

My point being where will it stop??? Having a fish (Blood Parrot) that is destined from the get go with physical problems is bad enough, but the Dr. Frankenfishes who create these can't let it stop there....NOOOOO they now have to come in "designer" colors compliments of injected dyes.

Don't for a minute think I enjoy getting ballistic about these things, but...aawwww never mind...I have to get some work done.

 

[Davy Reynolds]

Don't like the suckers :grumpy:

Parrots are to common nowadays, I dont want flowerhorns coming the same way.

 

[mostanks]

i have a blood parrot,his name is biggie and he just kicked the crap out of my carpenti and took second in command in the tank,he eats like a horse and swims fine.i've had him for about 2 yrs now
i'd rather have a flowerhorn,but he's cool.i tell you this if he could shut his mouth a lil more i bet he beat up my gt.
oh! no one was hurt in the lil battle not one csale out of place,just alot of pushing around and finning up.

 

[adeyc]

Parrots should have feathers and squawck a lot. simple as that. Hybrids are general made by peeps that suffer from greed and want more money or idiots with 2 much time on there hands. The best one is the folks that want to keep a certain tank say an amazon or a malawi tank. the see on of those flower horns etc and get one to put in. I suppose now well heve tribes man running about with salt, food and a stripping(breeding term) kit as well as some genetic altering equitment.

I don't like hybrids with a vengange but would love to see the result of a guppie and a great white!!! lol That would be an interesting fish. Imposible to do but interesting

 

[cichlidmaster]

I am glad to see people posting their views and opinions on this subject.

Sometimes people will shy away from a highly debatable topic such as this, but IMO ALL viewpoints are welcome.

Most...Your Parrot may swim just fine, but believe me it would swim a whole lot better being in one of it's original forms and would also be able to close it's mouth all the way.

Question: Is the "heart tail" parrot any more "deformed" than a blood parrot that can't close it's mouth completely??

 

[mostanks]

he he :grin:
i see this topic struck a few nerves.
Question: Is the "heart tail" parrot any more "deformed" than a blood parrot that can't close it's mouth completely??
yes,imo it is cos not only can it not open/close it's mouth it can't swim worth a darn,mine on the other hand can do both w/ease and maneuver around a carpenti enough to show his dominance.
ppl i am by no means trying to justify or (support for that matter)the creation of hybrids,i just happen to have one that i really enjoy keeping.and as long as they are living breathing animals you shouldnt' cast them away like they bring some disease,some ppl actually like them weather or not they are man made and basically my point is you guy's are busting their bubbles.

man i love lil debates like this *sigh*

 

[cichlidmaster]

Glad to hear your enjoying this Most...

I am leaving work now so no time to post...but WAIT TILL I GET HOME :laugh: :laugh:

 

[mostanks]

can't wait til i can go home,i got another 2 1/2 hr to go.

 

[Rose]

I will not intentionally buy a hybrid or a "color dyed" fish. It's sick and wrong. Like you CichlidMaster I don't see any reason for them except for more money and that's wrong.

I'd go on but my mind is still a bit muddled from last night but I will continue this later. Rose

 

[Tatya]

Okay so you guys dislike hybrids - because they are deformed and can't close mouths/swim properly etc.

What about the dogs (which okay haven't been hybridised) but have been line bred to produce similar deformities (can't breath through their noses - can't give birth properly etc) are they tainted with the same brush?

What of garden hybrid plants?

(Don't get me on dyed fish - anyone who does that deserves to be lined up against a wall and shot (IMHO ) )

I have to confess to not having a view on hybrid fish - I don't know enough about them to be able to decide. But I do know I've never kept one