Oh oh....

[Stonker]

I have a coldwater tank with 5 various coldwater fish including Ghost Koi, and Comets.
I recently added a couple of Black moores, after convincing myself that previous problems
with this breed were all coincidental!
After a couple of days, the both developed whitespot, possibly due to stress? Anyway,
one of them died. I treated the tank with Protozin to be sure to get rid of any whitespot.
Since then, most of the fish in the tank (except the Koi) have become extremely lethargic,
and spend most of their time on the bottom of the tank. They do feed ok.
The measurements were correct, so I don't think it was the medication.
Is there anything else which could be causing this? I've carried out a 30% water change, but it
doesn't seem to have made any difference.

 

[black angel]

Hi Stonker

How big is your tank? what kind of filtration and did you add any extra aeration whilst treating?
I dont want to seem as lecturing but koi should only be kept in ponds and large ones at that. How big are they?
So now to your problem. When buying any fish its always best to have a small 10 gallon quarantine tank up and running for any new arrivals. As you have seen, the newcomers brought in a disease that you now have to treat every fish for. If using a quarantine tank then you could have left them there for a month to settle in and any signs of disease to show itself. I bet as well, these fish will have some type of parasite as well.
The best treatment for whitespot is salt and heat. A heater at 30c and the tank salted slowly to .3% is the most natural method there is and would also kill off any other parasite.
With the meds, you run the risk of killing off lots of the beneficial bacteria in your filter and you need to keep the overhead light off and if you dont raise the temperature then the ich will be around for weeks. Adding the extra air will help them too.
When you are having the days that dont require the meds then i would do gravel vacs as this is where the eggs lie waiting to hatch. The meds are only going to work when the disease is in the free swimming stage so its improtant to keep the life cycle moving quickly with the heat.
Hope that helped

 

[Stonker]

<sigh>

The Koi's are around 2", and have been in the tank around a year. The tank is 3ft.
There's enough circulation and aeration in there to put the QE2 off course.
The Moors were added to the tank after being in isolation for a week.

 

[JackDemp528]

I've always found black moors to be hard to work with. They seem to need a better water quality than most goldies. And it's a bad idea to put any slow moving fancy goldie in with comets, koi, or shubunkin, since they move so fast and the slower fancy oranda, moor, or fantails move so much slower.

 

[black angel]

what was the sigh for stonker?
you wanted help and i asked for more information.
a three foot tank is not big enough for all those fish and at 2 inches in a year they are being stunted, and the likelihood of disease is considerably higher when fish are overstocked.
JD is right too when she said the fancy types dont do as well as the sleeker bodied fish.
a week for isolation wasnt long enough as you can now see. so you can either use my treatment or not, its up to you.

i have never had much luck with blackmoors either.

 

[bribones]

<sigh>

here we go again ,1 ghost koi is a no no for a tank they are strictly a pond fish and id say the same for the comets

if you dont want help dont ask

your right angel i dont know why we bother typing

the black moors most likely had white spot when you bought them but the change of environment has brought it out fully

i stopped keeping them years ago as they seldom live very long due to inbreeding

 

[Stonker]

Well thanks for your help.
The sigh was because of the problem's I'm having.

Can't anyone answer without sarcasm?

 

[black angel]

<sigh> no

the answer is you have too many fish in a small tank and stress from adding the new ones too soon, causing an outbreak of ich. once you get the ich sorted then i think finding a pond for your koi would be a good idea or getting bigger tanks to house them all comfortably.

 

[GSD]

ok ill give you an honest answer

1.the tank is 3 foot but the fish are being stunted.You need to move them asap.the desise is being worsened by the overstocking.The fish will be stunted and die very soon if you dont move them.is there no1 you know with a pond?

2.Fancy goldfish (moors,lionheads,celestial.lionheads,oranda etc.)should NOT be kept with any common goldfish as the commons will eat all the food and bullie the fancy goldfish.and the commons will often pick on the slower fancy goldfish

3.Koi are pond fish.only experienced fishkeepers with HUGE tanks should even attemp keeping koi in anything other than a pond.

the whitespot will have came with the moores.Alot of fish have it but it will have been made 50 times worse by stress.Turn the temp up and do water changes.As well as add the meds

It is possible that the meds could have affected your water sats.Do water changes.

good luck.

 

[ryan]

I'd have to agree. Ghost Koi, or any Koi for that matter should really reach 6-8" within a year in the correct conditions and in optimum conditions more. With the fish load in there your going to have unstable parameters and heavy pressure on the filters. If theres alot of circulation, that could also put Fancy Goldfish of as well as other fish who won't want to swim in a strong current 24/7.

 

[Stonker]

Thanks for the advice. I have a friend with an extremely large pond, with extremely large Koi! Will it be ok to add such small fish to such an enviroment?

As for the others, I've continued the Protozin treatment, and added an extra airstone. There's already a large air curtain in there.

As for filtration, it's a Juwel tank, and as you probably know, they feature large filters.

I'll continue to clean the gravel etc.

 

[black angel]

The koi may be a bit small yet, but unless you move them then they will stay small. Bribones should be able to tell you if you can release them in with the big ones. How big are they?
As for the filter, juwels arent the best for turnover rate. Ideally you need 10x tank capacity.
Good luck with your fish

 

[GSD]

i would put them in the pond as soon as you can.Then you can sort out the others.they should be fine with the others as long as you keep and eye on them.Unless you move them they will stay small