Odessa Barb Sexing Coloring Issues

[mikev]

Perhaps someone with more Barb experience has ideas here...

I'm getting deeply puzzled about Odessa barb color expression.

There are two problems, on different ends of the scale.

Firstly, there is apparently a common problem of Odessa's not showing color at all; this happens at the store where I got mine. While the fish I have at home shows nice red colors, the remaining fish at the store remains colorless (white with some showing small patches of red). Following my urging, the store tried a number of things (lower Ph, add driftwood, add plants), with no effect whatsoever.

(An Odessa Barb in full color is one of the most attractive barbs, but without color, it is plain and totally inattractive.)

My latest conjecture is that this has to do with filtration: in a home tank I don't overchange the water, and always stretch adding new water over a few hours; in a store, water is filtered over many tanks. Can this somehow depress the barbs?

I do think they are depressed, since the ones I bought also grew noticeably over 3 months comparing to those that stayed in the store.

----

Now, there is the opposite problem in my tank. While the barbs look healthy, active, and with color, they now have too much color. One month ago, I had 3 obvious males and 3 obvious females; now it looks like 6 males ... they all have bright color. The other symptome is that their upper sides are darker than before.

There were three changes with the tank in the last month:

1. I've changed the hood to a stronger light (previously I had < 1w/1g, not enought for plants, so I changed the hood to a double strip)
2. Added a couple of bamboo plants (which asaik also provides extra filtering).
3. Ph slowly drifted a bit up (so it is 7.0 now instead of original 6.6).

I suspect 1., would stronger light lead to stronger barb coloring? Can stronger light actually hurt fish?

 

[The-Wolf]

being, now an, Ex-lfs employee let me say this
all fish when veiwed in shops do not show their true colours. this is because us workers(dogsbodies)
are always messing with the tanks, be it netting the fish for customers or algea scrubbing or
changing the plants, decor etc.

 

[mikev]

Most certainly true, but this is an extreme case.

What makes it particularly strange is that when I got mine (in two installments), both times they developed colors within hours, so even acclimation -- the ultimate messing -- did not hurt them. Heck, the 2nd time they showed some color while still in the bag inside the new tank *before* I started mixing water.

(I hope things are ok in re ex-)

 

[mikev]

Uggh, strange things continue....

I got two more (well, it may be years until I see OB's in a store again) from the same group mine came from three months ago. Mine grew quite a lot, the new fish is about still the same size as originally. Don't look too pretty, either:

One has no color at all, one has little blotches of red (but nice bottom red fins none of mine has). Well, this time they did not change color, even if they are in enviroment that the other OD's obviously like. It has been like this for 24 hours now, and no color is coming up.

They are not sick (eating/swimming normally, the redfinned even tries to chase bigger barbs), but it seems that something about being at the store seriously damaged them....I am even not sure they can resume growth now.

I Feel really sorry for them.....

 

[mikev]

Hmm,... no progress after a few days.

If someone barb-experienced happens to read this:

I now have doubts that the two new barbs are even Odessas, possibly the store mixed barbs together (and of course charged the much higher Odessa's prices). My Odessas ignore the newcomers, don't even chase them.

I wonder if the top barb on the picture may be a checkerboard?
And the bottom one is something else altogether: it is very light yellow/olive color, and I only now realized that while all my Odessas have a big dot upfront and a smaller dot near the tail, this one is reversed: a tiny dot up front (not even seen on the picture), and a big one near the tail. Both are around 1.25"-1.5".

Any idea what these (esp. 2nd) may actually be?

 

[TammyLiz]

This is a little off topic but this thread caught my eye because I have been on the lookout for some rosy barbs but my LFS has not had very nice ones in lately, although they do have some odessa barbs that look fairly nice. Like you said, not a lot of color, but a little bit. How colorful ARE yours? You make them sound beautiful. Do you have a way to post a picture? I am wondering if I should switch my plan.

 

[mikev]

Hi, TammyLiz,

Funny enough, I was doing exactly the same (window shopping of Rosy Barbs) when I discovered Odessa's.

Yeah, in full color they are beautiful, and I'm not sorry about the decision to go with them, despite some difficulties. Even a female Odessa IMHO is nicer than a Rosy, and the males are much better. The other name for Odessa's is Scarlet Barb, this refers to a wide scarlet band that goes from the head of a male to the tail.

I don't have a picture on hand unf. (My camera is not good for moving fish, it blurs them, and it takes too much effort to make a good picture.).

This page:
http/www.jjphoto.dk/fish_archive/aquariu...cies_odessa.htm
has a decent image but my males are actually brighter.

Very important: if you do decide to give them a try, make sure you don't get males only. You want a mixed group, with about equal number of sexes, or more females. Yeah, I know that they are hard to sex
when you have very little color, so a couple of hints:
1. Ask the store if their Odessa's are a mixed group to start with; some stores sell males only, and if this is the case, don't buy.---I did this the first time, relied on the store's promise to get a few females soon, and it was not pretty.
2. Assume that the smaller barbs with more color are males, and the bigger ones with less color are females. (And if you see any with the bright red band, it is almost certainly a male.) This is not a guaranteed test, but this is exactly what I did when I added 4 to my two surviving males and I guessed correctly 4 out of 4.
3. If the barbs were in the store for long time (say 2 months), I'd suggest avoiding them. My latest experience seems to show that a long stay in bad conditions really damages them. Not the health, but the ability to develop color.

With the original six I have, the color showed up very quickly: the first time overnight, the second time while I was acclimating them (!).

They are a bit smaller than Rosy's, about the same temperament -- reasonable, unless it is a small group of males only, and would not hurt other fish like Tiger Barbs might.

I guess the summary is that you are taking some risks with Odessa's, but the reward is pretty nice: much nicer fish that is less common than Rosy's so allows you to brag about....

HTH

 

[TammyLiz]

I guess the summary is that you are taking some risks with Odessa's, but the reward is pretty nice: much nicer fish that is less common than Rosy's so allows you to brag about....

Thanks. Maybe I will. They have had them for no longer than 2 weeks I am sure. They do have some color. Not as washed out as you described. Some even have the entire red stripe showing. They should be fine. Do they school, though? I would like to have at least a loose school. Not just random fish all over the tank going their own direction. They'll be in a 55 gallon tank so should have plenty of room to do it if they're prone to. They were all mixed in with rosy barbs and a couple other spec. of barbs at the lfs, hard to tell if they would school.

 

[mikev]

Do they school, though?

They do in my 29g (mostly stay together), and chase each other a bit too. Males do the chasing mostly.
For the first couple of weeks in my tank, the males were controlling the top of the tank and the females (who also were younger and smaller) were mostly hiding at the bottom, then they worked it out.

Don't expect a perfect schooling all the time, however, this happens only with scared fish --- you may want to read what Lateral Line wrote about schooling in general on many threads here.

What will happen in your tank also depends on what else is there, but a loose school I think you'll have in all cases.

IMO, in terms of behavior (schooling included) they are equivalent to Rosy's.


Some even have the entire red stripe showing

--> probably males, don't take more than half of these, even if they look nicer.

Good luck.

 

[mbbowman]

Hi everyone,
I just picked up 4 odessa barbs (3m, 1f) and 4 rosy barbs (2f, 2m). They're just under an inch, and both species are stunning, but these odessas are just awesome! I bought them on a whim, and am already enjoying them. They are very small right now but already the males are showing their colors and making themselves at home. They even fight my B. kubotai loaches for their shrimp pellets! Next time I feed I'm going to try to make a point of scattering the pellets a bit more so that the loaches get their share . The odessas and rosys will. eat. anything. Flake food? Cool! Algae wafer? Sure thing! Shrimp pellets? Awesome! Blood worms? HELL YEAH!

If I can make it back up to the lfs (not so local...2hours away!) I might pick up some more females. The guy at the store seemed to think 3m and 1f was fine...I didn't think that really sounded right, but they're so small I figure I have a bit before they start sexually maturing. I asked him for whatever ratio he thought was best for the fish. Maybe he knew I'd just fall in love with them and have to come get more! They school for a bit, then scatter and go do something else, then chase each other, then school, then wander off, etc etc etc. They really, really, like playing in the bubble wall.

The rosy barbs remind me of red zebra danios. They're neat, and cheaper than a glowlight danio. Mostly they chill with the von rio tetras, who seem happy for the company. So far no nipped fins, but I'll keep a look out for that.

My initial take, !

Anyways, just thought I'd share my experience!

 

[TammyLiz]

Glad to hear you're enjoying them. I did end up getting some, too. I asked for eight but when I got home I realized one of them was a checkered barb washed out and in disguise! So I have seven, three males and four females. I've had them a year now and am very pleased with them. And you're right. They LOVE to eat, and are never shy! Mine eat everything that you mentioned also. Bloodworms are their favorite, and I've noticed their colors are brighter when they eat them regularly. Absolutely stunning.