Nutty Silver Dollars

[corykitty516]

Well my motherinlaw brought over her two remaining silver dollars that wer being kept in an 8 gal. They are 2 & 3 in long and are skitterish (for lack of a better word) as they can be. She is moving and cant keep them anymore. After dropping them into my freshly cycled quarrintine tank I noticed that the larger one's top fin seems to be a bit tattered. I'm treating as if it were fin rot. I cant tell though if they might have ich also. they keep hiding under the filter. How large are ich spots usually? How do you tell on a fish that is so sparkly anyway?
At least they are eating quite normally. They have gotten somewhat frendlier now that I've been feeding bloodworms from a baster to them.
I just got got a 55gal setup, which I drove an hour and a half into the heart of NOWHERE to pick up (hint: I met the lady at the "mall" which was a gas station/bait and tackle shop). Mr & Mrs silver dollar might have to live in quarrintine (10g) for a while until I can get this cycled. Then I'd like to have kuhlis and I'm not sure what else yet. (I adore all tetras and corydoras as well). I'm going for super peaceful here. Wish me luck

 

[swampcat]

8 gallons way too small for silver dollars and so is 10 gallons . 55 gallon min. they like too swim and fast. The fin is probably from them nipping each other. Silver dollars play alot and dart around tank. You should get another 2 silver dollars as these fish belong in schools (smart fish). Be careful with small fish such as cardinals, guppies, and neons they will eat them, even though they are veggies. Other wise they live peacfully with most fish and can live with some nasty ones too.

While you have your silver dollars alone put salt in tank for ick and raise temp to 80 F. One tablespoon to five gallons. Use sea salt for fresh water ,not table salt . Your fish store can direct you here. I have used salt with silver dollars for 15 years with great results.

To cycle your 55 gallon , take filter material from other tank . Rinse material in a bucket with water from tank and put in new filter. Do not rinse in tap water.

Get an aquaclear 300 or 500 filter They allow you to use all types of material for filration and alot of it. You can put ceramic cylinders, lava rock ect. for biological filtration and make your own media bags. saving tons of money on cartridges that have to be used with other filters. The sponge is reusable too. You can use any media used in a canister filter in an aquaclear and they cost alot less.

 

[lizard]

Ich spots look like grains of salt. With mild infestations, they're usually found on the fins. I don't know if Silver Dollars can handle warm temps, but if they can, I'd suggest raising your temperature higher than 80* - raising it above 85* would be better. I believe ich can't live at temperatures above 85* or 88* or something like that. I'm fighting ich in my tank, too Persistant stuff, it can be.

I'm with swamp cat - just take filter media from your cycled tank and put it in the 55 gallon so you can get the silvers in there ASAP. Alternately, you could just take the filter from the quarantine tank, plop it in/onto the 55 gallon tank, and leave it there for a week or two so that the happy little waste eating bacteria from the cycled filter and spread and move into the uncycled filter. Was my explanation clear as mud? If so, let me know, and I'll try explaining it again

Good luck

Pamela
aka Married Lizard

 

[corykitty516]

Thanks folks so much for your replies! I'm putting the silvers in the 55 today! It came with a Aqua clear 300. I'll put the quarantine filter in too and probably leave it there so the bacteria stays active. Im totally OCD when it comes to checking water params and doing water changes so I hope they will be OK. I decided that they dont have ich after all. I'm hoping a little meds didnt hurt.
Yep I knew that the 8 & 10 are WAY too small. Thats one reason I let mominlaw bring them over. I really hated to see them in something so small.
So should a wait a few weeks to buy 2-3 more? or should I go ahead this weekend? I dont want to crowd the tank but I would like to have Kuhlis for the bottom (that is if I can find some here) and maybe one other thing. Would a pair of dwarf gouramis be too agressive? or should I stick to something like some other tetras?
I appreciate everyone's suggestions
thanx
em

 

[fufanu360]

wont the ich from the hospital tank spread over to teh 55 tho?

 

[swampcat]

Wait a week or two and make sure everything is cool. Why not just leave both filters on the new 55 even after cycled? I have two on both my tanks and have had three (when needed). Currently I have an AC-500 and an AC-200 on my 55. My 500 is the main filter with foam, carbon and lavarock for bacteria growth and bio filtration. The 200 has a foam block and I filled to top with ceramic cylinders (2 filter bags) for bacteria growth for bio filtration. Do the same with my 100 gallon using two AC-500's.

This is not needed, but I also add a poly pad between the foam and next media (2nd level) polishes water nicely. HBH Co. sells polyester padding for filters (cut to size) get about 15, 1/2 inch pads for $2.50. Marineland also sells cut to size fiber pad for around $8 and can be rinsed a few times.

 

[corykitty516]

decided that is definately ich!!! so I'm treating accordingly and waiting one more day to move them. I'm not getting any more until I see no more spots!! The spots are only on the larger one and only along the base of his second dorsal fin (ummm is that the adipose fin?) My other fishies never had this problem so its really scary thanks all for your help

 

[silver]

I'm sorry to tell you this, but there have been a few false comments handed your way corykitty.......

First of all...

Silver Dollars like a low PH, you never use salt with Silver Dollars. It is bad for them and doesn't do diddley squat, but first and formost it isn't healthy for them and can send them into shock.......did me anyhow!!!!!

Secondly, I wouldn't recommend getting another TWO SDs for your 55. Trust me when I say that these guys are way too fast and just get plain too big to have 4 or even MORE in a 55 gallon. Take it or leave it, but my advice would be to get a 3rd one, but no more. It's really just the smartest thing to do!!

BUT, I must say that I am soooo very happy that you are puting those two in a 55 gallon. It is the very least you could do and the very least amount of space they need! Good for you!

I wish you luck, and remember that SDs just LOVE shelled peas B)
One more thing, don't let your temp. go over 80. My SDs are happiest between 76 and 79. Whenever my temp goes up my big one starts flicking himself on stuff and NO it's not ick . Also, you may want to get some bogwood, actually I definitley would if I were you and if you don't already have some. Bogwood will lower your PH a bit which the SDs will just love. Also peat moss will lower your PH and make your SDs feel right at home in the murky Amazon waters....but it will tint your water a yellowy-brown.....just one of those "take the bad with the good" types of things.

Also,
Sorry to be a miss-know-it-all.......I haven't posted much lately and all my instincts are overflowing!! BUT, be very careful what you treat you SDs with as far as illnesses. There scales are different than other fish, they aren't scaleless, but you almost have to treat them as if they are. I treated my tank with Pimafix and 2 of my Silvers died from it, clear cut case of poisoning.

Good Luck!

 

[swampcat]

Salt will not hurt a silver dollar. They actually like it. Silver dollars can survive rather harsh conditions. Silver dollars are a rather hardy fish. I have two that are 9 years old one 5 or 6 years and one around 2 years. have been in sea salt their entire life. and was recommended to do so by a vet who owns a fish store on the side.

 

[silver]

Well, I hate to tell you this but your "vet" is wrong..........and your silver dollars are just plain lucky!!



Oh, and calling Silver Dollars hardy.........ummmmmmm............ooooookay!!! Whatever!!

 

[swampcat]

Not luck its 20 years of experience with silver dollars. They can withstand poor conditions. Conditions other fish would die in. They can withstand rather high levels of ammonia that would kill other species quite quickly. They like water with a PH, as low as 5. Salt does not phase them when used properly.

Check out the water conditions of the amazon water basin in Guyana, and the Rio Negro. Not quite the fish tank conditions we create.

ONE TUFF FISH!

 

[silver]

Sorry, but I can tell there is absolutley no reasoning with you.......

"Think" what you want to.......20 years of experience huh

I know what reality is when it comes to these fish. I am telling you, yours are just plain lucky!

 

[swampcat]

We agree to disagree. I'll continue to use salt and you will not. Its the american way. Life goes on.

 

[corykitty516]

wow all this info! I still havent used salt too risky... I'm treating them with jungle buddies Ick Clear (no one scream) because it was the only thing that seemed safe enough AND it was the only thing that walmart had in the middle of the night. That has been like 4 days and the treatment has been repeated twice. I'm using half doses. The LFS reccomended I use something called Clout. I bought a box then got it home only to read that it was not for use on pirannah (arent SD's related?) or scaleless fish... SD's scales are weird enough that I'm afraid to use it. The spots are still there and on the larger SD but the patch where they are had not spread and have not seemed to spread to the other SD.
I saw something on another thread... something about white spots not being ick but calcium spots how common is that? These guys are not "acting sick" at all and they wont hold still when I try to take a picture.
Oh and the temp is at 80. No carbon in the filter and daily 25% water changes.... we shall see what happens. My PH stays low ...it comes out of the tap on the low side... like 6.7 or sometimes lower. I think its because the source is a river that runs through a pine forrest.
These guys MUST be tough to have survived the conditions in that 8 gal for as long as they did. They were originally in there with a bunch of other fish including tetras, some kind of chichlid (cringe), and painted glass fish (cringe, cringe) but they all died. The SD's were in a state of total neglect by the time I rescued them, dirty water, hardly getting fed, AND they were my motherinlaws and I just cant give her a hard time about it.... all I could do was beg her to let me "take them off her hands" I havent even told her about the ich yet.
*sigh*
keep wishing me luck

 

[swampcat]

Silver dollars are related to paranah. Maybe you should avoid this treatment.

The other fish you mentioned had to have died from ammonia in a tank that size, and as you stated the sd's survived horrid conditions. Their natural invironment is poor. The water in the area is referred to as black water.

I have found that silver dollars are more likely to die from stress than water conditions. They can be very timmid and upset easily. This is the probable cause of ick in the first place. After being netted or handled ,I have found it sometimes takes quite a while for them to return to their normal behavior. This is even more so when alone or too few. They are really happy in a group . They have also become so frightened they will jump out of tank, break heaters, glass thermometers,ect.

I lost two red hooks because they jumped out, one dried up on floor and the other landed in a turtle tank that belongs to my son (snack time). This happened years apart not at same time. Must have been jumping out of that salt!

Good luck though. You will find these fish to be really cool will reach 5-6 inches maybe a little bigger, red hooks go 8-9inches. I have two that are 9 years old, they moved from one house to another, three years later survived their 55 gallon tank breaking, lived in a 30 gallon garbage can for a week while waiting for their new tank ,along with others, and are now happily in a 100 gal.,