Not Yet A Disaster, But....

[Devorax]

I am in a dilemma. I bought 3 Fancy Guppies today and when I got home, they had what definitely looks like finrot. It'd cost more in fuel costs to return them to the LFS so will try to save them. Thing is, I have a mild case of whitespot/ich on just one fish in the tank which had it's meds given earlier.
So the question is, shall I isolate the guppies and treat with Interpet Anti Fungus & Finrot med (bearing in mind they have been in the main tank for a couple of hours now and might have already spread it) OR keep them in the tank and treat the tank with same meds, bearing in mind the Ich treatment doesn't mix with Interpet AF&F?
The water stats are fine, ie 0ppm ammonia, 0ppm nitrite, 10ppm nitrate, and the temp is at 29c, so I am at a loss how the Ich is being so stubborn. Tank stock is as signature.
Thanks for any advice.

EDIT: Correcting typos

 

[destinyxrose]

I am in a dilemma. I bought 2 Fancy Guppies today and when I got home, they had what definitely looks like finrot. It'd cost more in fuel costs to return them to the LFS so will try to save them. Thing is, I have a mild case of whitespot/ich on just one fish in the tank which had it's meds given earlier.
So the question is, shall I isolate the guppies and treat with Interpet Anti Fungus & Finrot med (bearing in mind they have been in the main tank for a couple of hours now and might have already spread it) OR keep them in the tank and treat the tank with same meds, bearing in mind the Ich treatment doesn't mix with Interpet AF&F?
The water stats are fine, ie 0ppm ammonia, 0ppm nitrite, 10ppm nitrate, and the temp is at 29c, so I am at a loss how the Ich is being so stubborn. Tank stock is as signature.
Thanks for any advice.

I would isolate the guppies and give them the finrot med. I don't recommend mixing the ICH med and the fin rot med until after you find out if they can be used together. If you are concerned that the guppies may have spread something, then do a partial water change and isolate the guppies. Keep and eye on your other fish and watch for any other signs of illness. Sometimes when you purchase new fish its best to isolate them for a short period of time to make sure they don't have any disease to spread to your other fish.

Not sure how long you've been trying to fight ich but from what i hear it does take some time to get rid of. I would probably wait till after the ich is gone before purchasing/adding new fish since ich can be deadly and the stress of a move for a fish can make a fish more susceptical to diseases such as ich. Good Luck Hope things work out.

 

[Devorax]

The fancy guppies were all dead this morning, less than 24 hours from purchase. Also dead was a fantastic ST betta (in his own tank). Water stats were fine, must have been just bad luck. Odd, because Maidenhead Aquatics fish are usually good stock. As a preventative, I will do a Anti Fungus/Finrot treatment asap in case it is in the water. Thanks destinyxrose for your reply, just gutted it was too late to save them.

 

[WILDER]

Forget the finrot med if the fish had whitespot you need to treat the whole tank.
Finrot common on top of whitespot.
How long did you climatise the new fish for.

 

[Devorax]

I only spotted your reply Wilder because I was coming to update with more bad news. An orange male mollie that was transported in the same bag as the guppies is on death's door, with blood streaking in the belly area and a somewhat deformed mouth. I have immediately isolated him and given Anti Fungus/Finrot (AFF for short) but I only rate a 5-10% chance of survival. He is belly up trying to regain his balance, he still has plenty of energy because he panicked when moved.
The fish were floated for 10 mins, with a 50% water change in the bag after 5 mins. The guppies had the finrot when we bought them, I'm pretty sure about that, but it wasn't obvious in the bag and in the shop tank there were so many of them and they were moving so fast that I couldn't examine them adequately. But the mollie definitely didn't have it when he was released in to the tank. The first guppy to die had a damaged tail when released, but it just disintergrated before our eyes over approx 4 hours in to nothing.
The new fish had no Ich at release, and their corpses show none either, I was treating for Ich because one fish in the tank had one dot of it on their tail, and was trying to get there with the meds before it became a problem.
I am waiting for the re-dosing day (tomorrow) for the Ich treatment, and then will give a preventative AFF dose instead. I will also add a dose of aquarium salt tomorrow (when the shop is open and someonw gives me a pointer to how much, it's a 240L tank) and with the temp at 28c, it might be enough to kill of the Ich, or at least slow it down whilst the AFF meds work.
I am just praying that this doesn't spread to the rest of the tank's inhabitants, grr I will be sooooo mad if it does. As it is I gave the LFS an earfull, and am getting a refund/exchange tomorrow. Probably go for a refund until I am sure everything is okay.

 

[WILDER]

Always check the bag water in ph and temp. This way you know how long to climatise.
What was the ph of the lfs tank they came from.

I wouldn't done a 50% water change after adding the fish. If you do want to preform a water change do it the day before you go to the lfs for more fish.
The water change do you mean in the bag water if so that was far to much.
There always a risk adding new fish it really best to issolate new fish for up to 4 weeks.

The deformed mouth does it look rotted away.
Blood streaking on the belly is septicemia. hard to cure once it advances.
What does it look like when the fish go to the toilet.
Do any fish look skinny.

 

[Devorax]

All of our fish look fat if anything, I am considering halving their food for a couple of weeks to lean them up a bit. I didn't change the tank water at all until today when I had removed the dead fish, and that was approx 25% with dechlorinator etc. The mollie died approx 2 mins after dosing with meds, so was a lost cause in the end. All other fish in main aqaurium are behaving normally, and there are no signs of illness bar the one dot of Ich on a neon.
I don't think the lfs would like it much if we went asking questions about their water quality, especially when Maidenhead Aquatics have a generally good reputation for their fish, but if it means they live when we get them then I guess I will have to start being slightly insulting by asking questions.
Now we have a 'proper' aquarium, I think we will have to have a quarantine tank running now. We only went to the LFS to get a couple of neons to up their numbers from 4 to 9, and to swap a hormonally charged mollie male for a quieter one because he was harrassing his females to their wits' end.
I followed the general advice on these pages about floating the fish for 10 mins with adding tank water, maybe I should have done it for longer and slower, but in the past I have done it with no problems whatsoever.
The odd mouth on the dead mollie had changed colour (was a dead skin white colour and not orange) and had changed shape, one half look shrivelled or eaten away and the other half looked slightly swollen.
Assuming there is the possibility that there is now something in the tank that can spread (ie in it's incubation period on the other fish), what shall I do now to protect them?

 

[WILDER]

On top of the whitespot you have a bacterial infection.
The lfs has sold you ill fish.
http/www.articledepot.co.uk/article-29320.htm

Look under columnaris and septicemia.
http/www.fish-disease.net/diseases.htm

 

[Devorax]

Right so going by those articles I need to get some tetracycline antibiotics asap from a vet then? Do you have any idea of the incubation period on columnaris and septicaemia? I would like to know how long I should watch the tank for (obviously a couple of days) for signs of illness. I spend quite long spells each day watching them anyway, so I am very familiar with what their normal behaviour is and anything out of the ordinary will stand out like headlights in fog.

 

[WILDER]

Have all the fish dyed which showed signs of columnaris and septicemia.
Just some daily water changes on main tank.

I would only use antibiotics in isolation as they wipe the benefical bacteria out in the filter.
I'ts hard to say how long you would have to treat for. It can be anything from a week up to 3 weeks.

 

[Devorax]

The only fish to die with signs of illness were the guppies and the mollie. The betta just 'stopped' living. He was transported in a seperate bag and given his own quarters, he also was in a different tank in the shop.
The worst example of illness was the first guppy that had it's tail disintegrate. It just appeared shredded with no sign of fin, just rays. And then no rays, and ultimately no life in the fish. The second guppy had his tail damaged over time in a sinilar manner but with not as much impact, he still had some tail left at death. The 3rd ended up similar to the second. None had any other symptoms apart from the obvious difficulty swimming, although the 3rd had it's pectoral fins stretched out stiff for a while before death. No redness to the gills, no increased respiration, no open mouthed breathing.
The mollie had the most external symptoms, with the mouth disfigurement and bloody satins in the anal fin/belly area, and noticeable thinning of the caudal fin.
So do I need tetracycline or just water changes? As I have said, no other fish have any symptoms whatsoever but I am wary of incubation periods and I don't want to let my guard down. I don't mind losing the maturity of the filter, I can always clone another filter I have for a faster re-cycling if absolutely necessary.
Thanks Wilder, you sure seem to know what you are on about!

 

[WILDER]

Septicemia can pass onto others as the bacteria from the fish can enter the tank.
Or just keep a close eye on the fish and do some daily water changes.

 

[Devorax]

Okay, I'll change the water approx 25% daily for 2 weeks, unless I spot ANY indication of the illness on any single fish, in which case I will get some tetracycline. Thanks ever so much Wilder, this particular forum would be lost without you!!!

 

[WILDER]

Thanks.
The water changes will dilute the bacteria down in the tank.
Good Luck.

 

[Devorax]

WILDERRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR!!!!!! HEEEEELLLLLPPPPPP!!! It has spread! In the space of a couple of hours, we have one mollie sitting in the bottom with clamped fins (no other noticeable symptoms) and Boris (the betta in my sig) has lost the use of one pectoral fin, is rapidly losing colour, and hangs at 45 degrees tilt upwards to the surface, motionless. He is alive, and we had to place him in a livebearer breeding trap to give him air because he was found laying motionless on the gravel not coming up for air and would have drowned.
Although no-one else has actually died, it is clear that this is now established in the tank and all fish are at risk. Therefore, we took Boris out for a while in to a bowl (using the aquarium water for stability) whilst we did an 80% water change. The point of this was to remove as much of the Ich treatment left in the tank, as well as most of the free floating bacteria in the tank. We then filled it again, switched of the Eheim (as it has zeolite in it) and added Interpet AFF appropriate for the tank size.
The Clown Loaches immediately reacted badly (dropping like a stone to the gravel) and so we had to take them out, place them with Boris (in untreated water) and then slowly acclimatise them to the tank water. They took it well enough (ie didn't die, and still swim occasionally) but they are far from well. A Black Widow has a noticeable spot on the caudal that looks exactly like the pics of finrot.
Is there anything else I can do except pray for mercy?