Not Sure What Is Wrong With My Fish!

[radiantsoph1]

Hi, I wondered if anybody would be able to help me as I'm not sure what is wrong with my fish. They have been fine for months, I have a 60 litre tank with 2 plecs, 1 twig catfish, 1 male fighter fish, 3 phantom tetras, 3 neon tetras and a scissortail rasbora.
 
On sunday I noticed that the fighter fish kept sort of picking at one of the phantom tetras and didnt really think much of it, later on that evening the tetra was swimming a bit funny, kind of leaning to one side. The fighter fish then took chunks out of its tail and it not long after died. The next day I got up I noticed that another one of my Phantom tetras had half its tail missing, so I called the pet shop and they advised me to take the fighter fish back to them so it could be rehomed as it obviously wasnt living well with the phantom tetras.
 
So the next day I got home from work, thinking all would be fine with the fighter fish gone. The two remaining phantom tetras had white spots all over them, which I thought was white spot disease (ich) so I went and brought some solution from the pet store and put it in the tank, I did it properly following the instructions.
 
The next day I got back from work and one of the phantom tetras was floating dead on the top, and my twig catfish was dead also. But the other phantom tetra who had half a tail left seemed to have lost more of its tail and the second half of his body had turned white, needless to say he died through the night also. I'm now thinking that maybe it was tail rot and not white spot? Could the fighter fish when taking chunks out of the tail started an infection?
 
I'm worried the rest of my fish are going to die and I will have none left. Does anybody know what could be causing this and what I should do now?
 
I always do a 20% water change once a week and make sure I don't overfeed them. I also had a water test done a couple of weeks agao and it was fine. Could it be a disease?
 
Thanks in advance for any advice.

 

[star4]

What type of plecs do you have. It sounds a lot of fish for a 60l tank. Many fish will pick at a sick fish, so I suspect the fighter knew the phantoms were sick and was just picking at them, I doubt that is the cause. Ich will appear when a fish is sick with another problem because as their immune system drops the ich parasite will then attack.
 
Have you checked your ammonia, nitrate and nitrite readings more recently, a couple of weeks ago things could have been fine. Also did you test them yourself or was it by and shop and what test kit did you use?. I suspect you have either a water quality problem which has caused the deaths or a bacterial problem.  Unfortunately no test kits show up bacteria or fungal infections.
 
The fish that died, were there any other marks other than the missing bits of fins? were their mouths wide open or closed.
 
To start with I would recommend doing small daily water changes, 10% at lease per day to dilute whatever the cause is, also if you can photograph any problems on the remaining fish that would help to identify the problem possibly.
 
Sorry I have given you more questions than answers, but the more information the better chance at solving the mystery.

 

[radiantsoph1]

Hi, thank you for your reply.
 
I have a bristlenose and rubbernose plec, the store told me they would be fine with the other fish as they are only small at the moment, but that when they get to a bigger size I may need to upgrade to a bigger tank.
 
I got my water tested at the store, but not have not had it tested since. Would you suggest buying my own testing strips? As I have heard it can be better than going to a store and getting the water tested.
 
The fish that died had nearly all its tail missing and the back end had turned white, other than that it looked normal and the mouth was closed. The fish that are remaining all look completely normal and are behaving as they normally would do, should I expect more to die?
 
I will do the 10% daily water changes and get my water tested again. I did put in the solution for the ich though that I brought from the store, it is a 2 dose treatment and I am due to do the second dose on Sunday, do you think I should not bother with it now or do the second dose to be on the safe side?
 
Thanks

 

[Ch4rlie]

Sorry for your losses

Can I ask if you cycled that tank before adding the stocking?

If unsure what I mean, have a read of this :
http/www.fishforums.net/index.php?/topic/421488-cycling-your-new-fresh-water-tank-read-this-first/

What's your regular water changes?
Weekly or less/more?
Do you clean the filter or change filter media?
If so, how do you clean the filter and what media do you change etc

Sorry if these seems silly questions but just want to get an idea of how things were set up to help get a picture if what's going on with your tank.

 

[radiantsoph1]

After reading that I don't think I did. I am new to tropical fish keeping and was told by pets at home to set my tank up and wait a week before adding fish and then to add them gradually. They gave me an advice booklet which said nothing like what is in the link you provided. As I am new to this I had no reason to doubt them. I've had the tank for 3 months now and no deaths until now.

I usually do a 20% water change on a weekly basis. I usually clean the filter sponge out in the tank water just emptied out. I change the actual filter cartridges containing the carbon and zeolite[there are 3] one every 3 - 4 weeks.

So if I haven't cycled my tank properly what should I do now? Also just noticed that my plec has a white spot on him, not like white spot more like the size of a 5 pence piece.

 

[radiantsoph1]

Just been to the shop to pick up a tester kit, I couldn't get one that tests everything so I went for the Api ammonia tester kit as I thought that would be thw more important to test for? Anyway it's coming back with a reading of 0 I think this means it's ok? So still doesn't really help with what the problem could be. Any ideas?

 

[Ch4rlie]

Is this API ammonia test kit a liquid based kit or a paper strip dip test kind?
 
The paper dip test kits tend to be kinda inaccurate, better off with a liquid based test imho.
 
If you are unsure of your water parameters via your test kit, take a sample of your tank water to LFS and ask them to test the water, be sure to note what test kit they use and ask for specific test readings, don't just accept "its fine" kind of response from them.
 
By sounds of things you are basically doing a fish in cycle, and since you've already been doing this for several months, it looks like you have a handle on regular water changes to keep ammonia and nitrites to a minimum. Not sure if your tank has already started to cycle or not, difficult to tell without water test results really.
 
And a lot of LFS do advise new fish keeper to do fish in cycles and is not great advice from them 

Unfortunately, this happens a lot and you're not the only one this has happened to. 
Research and asking for advice is the best way to start doing things, and you've already started to ask for advice 

 , keep doing your water changes and posting water test results (ideally ammonia, nitrite and tank water pH) and we'll help you along the way.
 
Don't worry. we'll get there. 

 

[radiantsoph1]

No its not a strip. I took a water sample and mixed in 8 drops from both of the chemicals provided in the Kit. So I must be managing my water changes fine then?

What would explain the deaths of the 4 fish I have lost? Is it due to cycling with fish in? So I shouldn't worry about and diseases?

 

[Ch4rlie]

Ok, it is possible your ammonia may well be at 0 but something tells me that might not be the case, could be a false reading of 0.
 
It is difficult to determine this without knowing what exactly you have done so far and without test results of other test such as nitrite and nitrate.
 
The deaths of the 4 fish COULD be down to ammonia or nitrite poisoning. Can you say if you saw any symptoms on the fish before they passed away? perhaps red gills, gasping, at surface of tank water, swimming erratically, lethargy swimming on own in quiet area of tank.
 
The more information you can provide, the better.
 
Also what is the tank water temperature?
 
I cannot rule out anything about whats happened to your fish, certainly not ruling out diseases or ammonia/nitrite poisoning.
But with more information on your usual routine and test results, fish symptoms  etc, we will soon have a better idea of whats going on in your tank.

 

[radiantsoph1]

The tank temperature is 26c. I will either get a test kit that tests everything or take a water sample to the shop to get tesTed.

2 of the fish looked as If they had white spot disease and the other lost its tail and the back end turned white. Other than that they were normal. The remaining fish are all fine though and are behaving as they usually do.

 

[Ch4rlie]

Ok.
 
I would definitely carry on with the ich treatment and follow that exactly as directions on bottle instructions.
Which meds are you using btw?
 
Also increasing the temperature from 26C (79F) to 29C (84F) would help, the higher temps helps the ich disease to grow faster, so it fast forwards their life cycle therefore killing them earlier and the ich treatment will kill off the rest of disease in the tank.
 
And you will also need to add or increase water surface agitation via your filter or adding airstone to help with oxygen in tank water as higher water temperature decreases the oxygen.
 
Doing waters change will help a bit but do remember to re-dose the ich treatment as you would be removing some of the meds when doing water changes.
 
If you can, get the water test results from LFS or purchase a complete API FW Master test kit or similar, whichever is easier for you and post all exact results onto here.
 
Ich is nasty and can be hard to treat but hopefully we can do something about this. Fingers crossed.