Not sure on how to handle a new fish.

[jaylach]

A few days ago I got an L262 Stardust pleco. When ordered I was expecting it to be over 2 inches in size but what I got is probably a touch under an inch so is VERY young.

First off a Stardust is a shy critter by nature and I would expect the current situation where it is in hiding in a cave... Well, not actually a cave but a fake tree trunk that is hollow equating to caves as it has several openings. It seems to be doing OK as, if I watch for awhile I get a peek of it moving around in the trunk.

I added more stress to the poor critter as I had to re-home a common pleco and had to pretty much break down the tank including the tree trunk to be able to catch the common. Bad planning on my part but I got the Stardust a day before the common was picked up.

My actual question is related to feeding. The Stardust is omnivorous so I have wafers that contain 29% protein. Problem is that my corys seem to love the stuff and eat it before the Stardust probably even knows it's there. Considering that I've been dropping small pieces of these wafers directly into a top opening of the tree trunk so the Stardust can get it.

My concern is that I MAY be 'training' the Stardust to stay hidden by feeding directly to its hiding place. Am I doing right or should I use larger pieces of the food wafers in the open to where there is still some when the corys are done for the Stardust to come out and find?

I know that considering the short time I've had the critter I'm probably over concerned but except for baby guppies I've never had a fish this young and want to be sure I'm doing right by the pretty critter.

 

[AdoraBelle Dearheart]

Since you've only just got it, it's young, and plecos are known for doing this and hiding away when in a new tank, I wouldn't worry too much about where to feed him yet! I do think they learn your feeding routine over time. I've had two plecos with 16 cories for longer than a year now, and while of course cories will eat anything that goes in the tank, the plecos can sense/smell the food too, and they're pretty good at planting themselves on top of a piece of food, and bristling when cories bumble over them and carry on eating! I remember having the same concerns when I first got my plecs.

My evening feeding routine is to feed the cories/middle/top feeders first, at about 7:30pm. Then I'll drop in food or stick some veg in for the plecos about an hour or so later, and they sometimes come out and eat with the cories, or they dominate the food later once the cories are less hungry and have calmed down a bit. The cories also don't bother so much with the veg.

Remember all fish need some time to settle into a new environment, it's normal for them to not eat for a few days and hide away, and that won't do them any harm, even a small plec. Especially when there's algae and biofilm on the plants and tank that they're likely nomming on when the lights are off! Don't forget that plecs also require some real driftwood they can rasp on to help their digestion. Just try to keep stress low for a while and give him some time to settle.

Congrats on the new fish! Hope we can see photos soon!

 

[AdoraBelle Dearheart]

Considering that I've been dropping small pieces of these wafers directly into a top opening of the tree trunk so the Stardust can get it.

Careful doing that though... are you cleaning the substrate and any left over food the next day? Just that wafers/discs have the potential to cause an ammonia spike if the pleco isn't eating it and it's building up...

 

[Guyb93]

People may not like this but pleco are effectively scavengers , my plecos don’t eat algae wafers really they much prefer the leftovers of the food fight my cichlids have , not to say don’t feed them algae wafers just if the pleco is in a tank with other fish it’s eating weather you know it or not , a pleco of that size will live off micro algae that you can barley see , I would suggest swapping the fake log to a real log as plecos will rasp on wood and when worrying if he’s eating or not it’s always good for them to have some natural source or nutrition

 

[jaylach]

Since you've only just got it, it's young, and plecos are known for doing this and hiding away when in a new tank, I wouldn't worry too much about where to feed him yet! I do think they learn your feeding routine over time. I've had two plecos with 16 cories for longer than a year now, and while of course cories will eat anything that goes in the tank, the plecos can sense/smell the food too, and they're pretty good at planting themselves on top of a piece of food, and bristling when cories bumble over them and carry on eating! I remember having the same concerns when I first got my plecs.

My evening feeding routine is to feed the cories/middle/top feeders first, at about 7:30pm. Then I'll drop in food or stick some veg in for the plecos about an hour or so later, and they sometimes come out and eat with the cories, or they dominate the food later once the cories are less hungry and have calmed down a bit. The cories also don't bother so much with the veg.

Remember all fish need some time to settle into a new environment, it's normal for them to not eat for a few days and hide away, and that won't do them any harm, even a small plec. Especially when there's algae and biofilm on the plants and tank that they're likely nomming on when the lights are off! Don't forget that plecs also require some real driftwood they can rasp on to help their digestion. Just try to keep stress low for a while and give him some time to settle.

Congrats on the new fish! Hope we can see photos soon!

Thank you SO much.

Ya, I'm sure there will be a photo when it comes out of hiding.

My main concern was if I was doing good or bad by feeding directly to the little critter's hiding place. If I understand what you have said I think that you are saying that I should feed in the open and let it do its thing when ready. Is that correct?

LOL! I know what you mean by a pleco 'planting itself' on food as the common I re-homed did exactly that as did previous plecos in the past. I've just never had a pleco this small/young and am going through the 'new parent syndrome'.

This Stardust is just different than my past experience with plecos. It is just so tiny. It is quite smaller than my black skirt tetras and mayhaps just slightly larger than my corys. LOL! It is a baby and my paternal instincts have kicked in.

I just want to make sure that I'm doing right as I did not expect this young of a critter. When I ordered the site advertised a fish 2-3 inches but I got one an inch, possibly a touch under.

I KNOW I'm over reacting in my concerns but I consider having a 'pet' a responsibility, not a right.

 

[jaylach]

To all others, thank you! Your posts came after I started my last post.

I have considered adding some drift wood that I can easily get from a creek next to my apartments. When I add store bought stuff I boil to sterilize. Should I do the same with naturally harvested drift wood? I will keep the fake tree trunk as my black skirts like it but could easily add some wood.

 

[AdoraBelle Dearheart]

Thank you SO much.

Ya, I'm sure there will be a photo when it comes out of hiding.

My main concern was if I was doing good or bad by feeding directly to the little critter's hiding place. If I understand what you have said I think that you are saying that I should feed in the open and let it do its thing when ready. Is that correct?

LOL! I know what you mean by a pleco 'planting itself' on food as the common I re-homed did exactly that as did previous plecos in the past. I've just never had a pleco this small/young and am going through the 'new parent syndrome'.

This Stardust is just different than my past experience with plecos. It is just so tiny. It is quite smaller than my black skirt tetras and mayhaps just slightly larger than my corys. LOL! It is a baby and my paternal instincts have kicked in.

I just want to make sure that I'm doing right as I did not expect this young of a critter. When I ordered the site advertised a fish 2-3 inches but I got one an inch, possibly a touch under.

I KNOW I'm over reacting in my concerns but I consider having a 'pet' a responsibility, not a right.

Aaaww! Sending cyber hugs if wanted! I totally get the "I'm a new parent to an adorable tiny baby!" panic! My plecs were tiny when I got them too. I don't know your variety, but mine I've since learned take YEARS - like, 3-5 years to reach full maturity. So they're pretty small when you first get them! Plus you're used to size of the common pleco, and that's probably affected your expectations subconsciously!
Yeah, personally, I'd feed in the open in the evening, maybe turn the blue light on and watch, see if he comes out. My concern about dropping food into decor is not being able to see if he's even eating any of it, and any uneaten food is going to go bad in there, and not easy for you to clean out without disturbing the pleco.

I'd do the evening feeding thing, leave a wafer for an hour or so, then syphon out any uneaten leftovers. Veg can be left a little longer - in my lighter stocked, established tank, I'd stick it in around 8-9pm, then remove it in the morning.

If it helps reassure, here's some photos of Ziggy the day I got him! That was Feb 2021. He was in the 12 gallon quarantine with some young cories before moving to the big tank, and before I got a second one. They were under an inch I think when I got them, but plecos are pretty independent by that point! I'm sure he'll be fine


Photo of Ziggy the day I got him, look at the bronze cories for size comparison! he was teeny tiny:

This species are slow growing, but they were in a 57g with cories to grow out, and the two are still doing well and growing, slowly! But they certainly eat! This photo taken when I moved them to a new set up last month. Didn't measure them, sorry, but they're growing, getting their adult colouration and still here

 

[jaylach]

Ziggy looks a lot like my Dusty with the white speckles. Below will be an image of an adult version of Dusty.

What you say about food contamination by feeding directly to the hiding place was a concern to me as, while I do have a small enough siphon to get in the fake tree trunk I'm afraid to use due to possibly sucking up Dusty.

You are welcome to cyber slap me up side the head but I royally screwed up when I had to tear down the tank to catch the common pleco I re-homed. First I pulled out the fake tree trunk and all fish were still there in the tank including the new Stardust . Then I had to remove fake plants to get to the common. When the tree trunk was gone the little Stardust attached to one of the plants. Thank God I noticed the thing on a plant when I dumped in the sink. I about tripped head over heal over my coffee table getting that plant back into the tank.

I am sad to say that, even though not intended, I have caused this poor little beasty more stress than should have happened.

Here is an adult version of a Stardust-L262. My tiny critter looks pretty much the same but the ting is so small that it tends to look just grey unless you look really close.

 

[AdoraBelle Dearheart]

Ziggy looks a lot like my Dusty with the white speckles. Below will be an image of an adult version of Dusty.

He's gonna be gorgeous! Yes, very similar looking to my Ziggy and Stardust! (I named them thinking they were Starlight L183 plecos, have since found out that they're Peppermint L181's, so their names no longer make sense, but they're stuck with them now! I can tell them apart since Ziggy is a bit bigger and has a small nick shape to his tail. He's had it since he was tiny, so not an injury, just a tiny difference in his tail shape

What you say about food contamination by feeding directly to the hiding place was a concern to me as, while I do have a small enough siphon to get in the fake tree trunk I'm afraid to use due to possibly sucking up Dusty.

Completely understand! But yeah, I would give that a small clean today, then not drop any food down there any more. He'll come out when he's hungry, and like @Guyb93 said, they do graze on biofilm, algae and micro-organisms in the tank too, so try not to panic thinking he's so tiny and he's not eating - he will be fine even if you didn't see him eat for weeks, there is food in there he's very capable of finding And they don't have the energy requirements to keep body temp up like mammals do, so can manage for a long while without food even if you haven't seen him eat. But don't want to risk an ammonia spike by leaving wafers under decor.

You are welcome to cyber slap me up side the head but I royally screwed up when I had to tear down the tank to catch the common pleco I re-homed. First I pulled out the fake tree trunk and all fish were still there in the tank including the new Stardust . Then I had to remove fake plants to get to the common. When the tree trunk was gone the little Stardust attached to one of the plants. Thank God I noticed the thing on a plant when I dumped in the sink. I about tripped head over heal over my coffee table getting that plant back into the tank.

I am sad to say that, even though not intended, I have caused this poor little beasty more stress than should have happened.

No slapping coming from me! I've made mistakes like that too, it happens. Don't beat yourself up too much. The common pleco definitely had to go, so had to be done! Glad you were able to find another home for him! I strongly believe that common plecs shouldn't be stocked in most fish stores, and definitely not sold to most people, since hardly anyone has a tank or pond that can accommodate them. It's not fair that so many people end up with them, then have a nightmare trying to find a suitable home for them, or how many wind up stunted in tiny tanks. My last LFS never stocked them, said he'd only order one in by special order if a serious keeper wanted one and had the right set up for it.


The sink accident sounds scary! So glad you saw him and got him back in! Luckily they can breathe out of water for a long time. Poor little dude, he's had a stressful few days! But not judging you, I had to rescue a neon from a soapy sink once! Panicked when I saw him and rinsed him under the tap (this was before I knew fishkeeping!) before plonking him back in the tank. Miracle he survived, but that tough little dude lived for years after that! Never quite the same mind you, but amazing he survived!

Just give him some time to settle, maybe keep the lights dim if yours let you do that, do the mini substrate clean where you'd dropped the food, but try to keep it calm and low key but just a quick clean up, then let him settle again. Plecos are tough fish, I'm sure he'll be okay

 

[jaylach]

The sink thing wasn't all that dramatic as I saw the critter as soon as I dumped the plants in the sink. It was out of the tank less than a minute. Stressful, yes. Damaging, no.

I totally agree that commons should not be generally sold. I mean these things have a potential of reaching 2 feet in length. A 100 gallon tank would be borderline.

A little history and possible insight as to my attitude... First I have not had a tank for over 25 years. Recently a friend in my apartments asked me to look after some fish while he was in a 9 week program at the local Veteran's Admin.. I took the fish and they were in a flower vase that may have held a little over a quart of water with no heat or filtration. Obviously they were going to die. Just to keep them alive I bought a 2.5 gallon tank to hold the critters. At that time the common pleco was just over an inch. The original owner decided that he didn't want them back so I was sort of stuck with a common pleco, a single black skirt tetra and an albino cory in a mini tank.

Trying to deal with this situation I realized how much I missed having a tank so bought a 20 gallon cube that I guess would be considered a nano tank but I'm not actually sure what nano tank means... Hey, I'm old school...

So now I have this tank that tests OK on water conditions but I have modified the filtration. Initially the tank's built in filtration came with a pump pushing 264 GPH. It was just too much and I replaced with a pump doing 93GPH which equates to 4 water cycles per hout which is OK but low. However I also established two under gravel plates for gravel filtration with each plate driven by a Whisper 40 air pump.

Bottom line is that I'm hooked again and thinking about getting a 50 gallon tank but am concerned a bit on doing. I live in a third floor apartment and am a bit leery about putting a 500 pound weight on the floor as in a 50 gallon. If the building is actually to code the floor should be 3/4 inch plywood and the weight should be fine. Still I worry...

Then there is arranging things... Right now the 20 gallon tank is to the left of my couch with my cockatiel's penthouse to the right of the couch. If I were to do this I would end up with the bird cage would end up in an opposite corner where there is now a corner desk with a laptop I almost never use. The 50 gallon would go where the bird cage now resides. I'd end up with a 20 gallon to the left of my couch and a 50 gallon to the right with my bird even more visible.

If the above ever happens the 50+ gallon tank would be a bare tank using nothing but under gravel filtration with 4 air risers; 2 risers air driven and the other two power heads. Anyone can tell me all day long that the modern three stage filtration is better but, in my opinion from years of past experience, it just isn't. I mean, looking at my tank with built in filtration, it is garbage. We love our fish and they deserve the closest that we can do to nature. Under gravel does that much better than this built in stuff.

I mean take bacteria colonies... With my tank this is done through ceramic rings involved in the built in filtration. In a natural tank this is done through the substrate. Gee... using artificial material (ceramics) versus a natural system using substrate... I see a lot of talk about making a tank natural to the critters yet most use artificial methods for filtration instead of letting it be done by nature.

Granted that a smaller tank, under 30 gallons fresh or 50 gallons salt, need help as they are too small to set up a sustainable ecology. But, if a tank is of proper size it will maintain itself if allowed. I kind of think that scheduled large water changes on a large established tank is a waste. You take out a bunch of water and replace with water that you add stuff to try to make it just like what you took out. What is the sense in that.

Don't get me wrong in relation to my tank as it is just 20 gallons and a cube which lessens the under gravel filtration. I know that in such a case water changes are needed. I just think that water changes in larger tanks should only be done if there is an an issue. Granted that even with a larger tank a bit of water change will be done if you vacuum the substrate as you would replace the water pulled by the vacuum. Still this is drastically different than what I see being recommended as 30% to 50% water changes on a weekly basis. Unless there is a tank health issue that just makes no sense to me. I mean I just don't understand. Why would it be good to drain perfectly fine water to replace with water that isn't as good as that removed and stress the fish in the process. Mayhaps I'm naive or just dumb but I just don't get it.

 

[GaryE]

A couple of things. First, I would feed that fish at night. It's a Hypancistrus species, and that means it is more of a carnivore than an algae rasper. It will do well with frozen food or bug bite type stuff. A little algae now and then is good, but veggies are not its niche.

I would also make sure I had my filters at maximum flow, as it's a fastwater fish that requires a lot of oxygen. Current. It comes from rapids habitats.

When we call them plecos, we start treating them as plecos, and they are from a different group with different needs.

Second, no matter the size of the tank, I do 30% weekly. In fact, since I have a community of about 35 tetras and a few Corys in my 120, it gets the most regular water changes. It isn't perfectly good water after a week. Your test kit lies... or actually, it really doesn't test that much. For ammonia, nitrates and nitrites, it's fine, but water quality isn't that simple.

Stop for a second. I was fishing on Monday (for local killies),in a local lake that is able to maintain itself with no filters! My 120 would fit into it a few million times, and that's a small lake. Anything under several thousand gallons is a puddle, as an ecology. It looks big in a house. It's really tiny. The lake in question is teeming with fish - just loaded. What would that be? One tetra sized minnow per 150 gallons?

I have a good friend who has an 800 gallon, with 4 fish in it. He has it on a sump as that makes his weekly water changes easier. He has also caught a lot of Hypancistrus in the wild, and the water really moves.

 

[jaylach]

A couple of things. First, I would feed that fish at night. It's a Hypancistrus species, and that means it is more of a carnivore than an algae rasper. It will do well with frozen food or bug bite type stuff. A little algae now and then is good, but veggies are not its niche.

I would also make sure I had my filters at maximum flow, as it's a fastwater fish that requires a lot of oxygen. Current. It comes from rapids habitats.

When we call them plecos, we start treating them as plecos, and they are from a different group with different needs.

Second, no matter the size of the tank, I do 30% weekly. In fact, since I have a community of about 35 tetras and a few Corys in my 120, it gets the most regular water changes. It isn't perfectly good water after a week. Your test kit lies... or actually, it really doesn't test that much. For ammonia, nitrates and nitrites, it's fine, but water quality isn't that simple.

Stop for a second. I was fishing on Monday (for local killies),in a local lake that is able to maintain itself with no filters! My 120 would fit into it a few million times, and that's a small lake. Anything under several thousand gallons is a puddle, as an ecology. It looks big in a house. It's really tiny. The lake in question is teeming with fish - just loaded. What would that be? One tetra sized minnow per 150 gallons?

I have a good friend who has an 800 gallon, with 4 fish in it. He has it on a sump as that makes his weekly water changes easier. He has also caught a lot of Hypancistrus in the wild, and the water really moves.

OK..... I already do feeding in the evening but not at actual night. This is for all fish. I plan on brine shrimp and blood worms but my local store was out of both on my last visit. Best that I could do was wafers with 29% protein. Not my best choice but the best I could do right now.

As far as filtration I'm using a 93 GPH on the built in filtration along with dual under gravel filtration with each driven by a Whisper 40. How much more filtration and aeration could I possibly have?

 

[AdoraBelle Dearheart]

A couple of things. First, I would feed that fish at night. It's a Hypancistrus species, and that means it is more of a carnivore than an algae rasper. It will do well with frozen food or bug bite type stuff. A little algae now and then is good, but veggies are not its niche.

Sorry that's my bad for suggesting veggies without looking up the species, my L181 are more omnivorous and enjoy some veggies, so it's what came to mind. But the point about whatever you're feeding, plecos like to eat at night etc still stands anyway! Mine do seem to enjoy the Bug Bites that I use to feed the cories too. They're a hit with all the fish really.

So that I don't hijack this thread, would you mind if I tag you into my recent thread about my plecos, and pick your brain a bit, pretty please!

Stop for a second. I was fishing on Monday (for local killies),in a local lake that is able to maintain itself with no filters! My 120 would fit into it a few million times, and that's a small lake. Anything under several thousand gallons is a puddle, as an ecology. It looks big in a house. It's really tiny. The lake in question is teeming with fish - just loaded. What would that be? One tetra sized minnow per 150 gallons?

YES! I was trying to make this point to someone the other day who was asking about filterless/no water change tanks; that my view is that most of the fish we keep come from rivers and lakes. Even bettas live in huge waterways that they travel through! That not many fish live in stagnant puddles... lakes and rivers have constantly refreshing water from rainfall/seasonal changes, the flow from streams and rivers... It's not as if they sit there, the same water staying unchanged. It flows through rock, clay, dirt, picks up minerals etc. Thinking that we can re-create that kind of system in a few gallons seems insane, and lazy, to be honest.

I really should look into those tanks that people run like that more, but I have serious doubts that keeping a few gallons of unchanged water - no matter the plant load or filtration methods, is not going to give most fish the water quality they want, even if ammonia/nitrites/nitrates are okay. That's not accounting for all the things we don't measure for, like hormones, calcium, essential micro nutrients etc. The fact that many species breed during the rainy seasons when they get a huge influx of clean fresh cooler water, and that breeders of fussier species urge really frequent and large water changes to spawn fish and raise the healthiest fry that grow well, says something.

 

[jaylach]

Sorry that's my bad for suggesting veggies without looking up the species, my L181 are more omnivorous and enjoy some veggies, so it's what came to mind. But the point about whatever you're feeding, plecos like to eat at night etc still stands anyway! Mine do seem to enjoy the Bug Bites that I use to feed the cories too. They're a hit with all the fish really.

So that I don't hijack this thread, would you mind if I tag you into my recent thread about my plecos, and pick your brain a bit, pretty please!

YES! I was trying to make this point to someone the other day who was asking about filterless/no water change tanks; that my view is that most of the fish we keep come from rivers and lakes. Even bettas live in huge waterways that they travel through! That not many fish live in stagnant puddles... lakes and rivers have constantly refreshing water from rainfall/seasonal changes, the flow from streams and rivers... It's not as if they sit there, the same water staying unchanged. It flows through rock, clay, dirt, picks up minerals etc. Thinking that we can re-create that kind of system in a few gallons seems insane, and lazy, to be honest.

I really should look into those tanks that people run like that more, but I have serious doubts that keeping a few gallons of unchanged water - no matter the plant load or filtration methods, is not going to give most fish the water quality they want, even if ammonia/nitrites/nitrates are okay. That's not accounting for all the things we don't measure for, like hormones, calcium, essential micro nutrients etc. The fact that many species breed during the rainy seasons when they get a huge influx of clean fresh cooler water, and that breeders of fussier species urge really frequent and large water changes to spawn fish and raise the healthiest fry that grow well, says something.

You can tag me all you want but that does not mean that I will respond. Your total response seems like an ad for your personal agenda...

 

[AdoraBelle Dearheart]

You can tag me all you want but that does not mean that I will respond. Your total response seems like an ad for your personal agenda...

Wow.
What on earth did I say to offend you?? I was asking @GaryE if I could tag him into my own pleco thread to seek advice from him about mine, so that I wouldn't be rude and hijack your thread.

I don't have any personal "agenda", let alone ads for it. You raised the topic, GaryE gave his opinion, I gave my own thoughts on the topic too. That's called a discussion, which is what forums are all about, aren't they? I even said that I need to look more into the types of tanks that people run filterless and without water changes so I could learn more about their methods, but that I'm personally dubious about if they're really good for the fish. That's an opinion, not an agenda.
I don't know why you got so snappy and mean just because you dislike my thoughts on the topic, and I'm a bit hurt to be honest when we were having a good conversation all morning, and I took time out to try to help, encourage and support you, only for you to turn on me like that.
Are we not allowed to discuss the topic you raised? Or just have to become enemies and get all heated because we have different fishkeeping styles??