Not enough isolation tanks

[Rin4Christ]

Problem my mom is having with her fish:

Here's the situation... 20 gal main tank,divided into 5 apartments, cycled since September, (0 ammonia, 0b nitrites, 10 nitrates), a few plants. pH about 7.6? temp about 78 degrees.

Ignored the tank for a while (oops), heavy algae problem (tank also gets some sunlight.. hard to block it out)

I have since tried to clean it well, several 50% water changes and scrubbing the sides to remove as much algae as possible.

Back into 10% water changes 1-2 times a week. Water is treated with StressCoat.

also have 2 extra 2 gal hex tanks. (The isolation tanks for Miroku, under treatment, and the new red betta).

currently have 4 bettas... 1 has stayed healthy.

Jack, my chocolate, was put in isolation about 3 weeks ago and treated for fin rot. Seemed to clear, and was getting regrowth. Returned to the main tank Tuesday night.

Miroku, the red/blue, in isolation for very small bit of fin rot since this weekend. Seems to have cleared, but wanting to see regrowth. Being treated with Jungle Fungus Clear.

new fish, bright red, in isolation (just bought him Tuesday)

Jack, the one I returned to the main tank, seems to have fin rot again. Bottom fin has a chunk of something fuzzy hanging off the bottom (fungus, or bacterial growth?). That was also the original symptom, as well as with Miroku, the one in treatment.

All fish are swimming well and eating well.

How can I get rid of this problem? If I break down the tank and thoroughly scrub it, I don't have enough heated isolation tanks for all of the fish while the tank cycles, and the house stays about 70 degrees during the day, and drops some at night, I think.

Any suggestions? If I treat the main tank as a whole with Jungle Fungus Clear, I assume it will also kill off the biological filter.

Help!!!!

Mom

 

[WILDER]

Do a water change to fetch ntrites down, you could medicate all the tank it should say in the instructions if it destroys your bacteria colony, do you have a heater as it's best to keep a tank at a stable tempreture, then it won't cuase stress to the fish.

 

[Rin4Christ]

The tank has a heater and is kept at 78. Nitrates and Nitrites are now low after a couple of water changes

 

[Rin4Christ]

We have been using jungle fungus clear in the quaranteen tanks, but the lable doesn't say aything about biological filters. it only says "safe for plants" suggestions???

 

[RinsMom]

Ok, mom here.. I am now registered on this board. Anyway, Rin posted for me, looking for help. I have a large 20 gal tank divided into 5 apartments for bettas, lightly planted.

water parameters: pH 7.6, ammonia 0, nitrItes 0, nitrAtes close to 0, cycled since September. Temp kept at about 78 degrees.

I also have 2 isolation tanks, 2 gallon hex tanks, also heated.

1 isolation tank has a betta in it with a mild case of fin rot, the other has a new betta (just got him Tuesday)

main tank has one betta that has stayed healthy through all of this, and Jack, the chocolate with fin rot. I was treating him in an isolation tank and thought it was cleared up and saw regrowth, so I put him in the main tank on Tuesday.

Friday night, saw a chunk of the anal fin all fuzzy. It has since fallen off, but I know the problem hasn't gone away.

I didn't really want to treat the main tank and destroy the bio filter (using Jungle Fungus Clear), and have to start all over with cycling, since I don't have enough heated tanks for 4 bettas while it is cycling.

JFC doesn't say anything about being safe for the biological filter, just says safe for plants and tropicals.

Since it does treat bacterial conditions, my assumption is that it will probably kill off the bio filter as well.

Any other questions, or does anyone have any suggestions? I have been doing 10 % water changes in the main tank a couple of times a week, did a 20% last night.

Mom

 

[ral]

I would assume it will kill off the bacteria. Even bacteria safe medication might kill off bacteria simply from the stress of the change in the environment.

Fin Rot in itself is not highly contagious, but I understand that other fish in a shared tank might contact the illness from leavign a sick fish in.

Okay so we medicate outside.

I have had finrot that has cleared up in 3-4 days, and finrot that took almost 2 weeks to beat so you may have to be prepared to keep them in isolation for some time, so I think it is important that anyisolation facilities you have should be good enough to pe a "permanent" home. At least 1/2 gallons, preferrably a gallon or more.

Why not use the 2 gallon hex tanks forh te sick betta's? If I really had too, I would put the new fish in and risk it.

 

[SRC]

Fungus; Body Fungus (True Fungus)
Saprolegnia

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Description:
This is the most common type of fungus, and it will kill quickly so it's important to medicate as soon as possible. Fungal spores are always present in a tank. Fish are commonly infected with fungus as a secondary disease due to becoming weak and susceptible following some other disease or problem (such as physical damage).

Diagnosis:
The fish will have fuzzy patches of white or gray matter on its body or gills, usually grayish to white in color, or sometimes darker. A white slimy, flattish patch can appear which will seem to have replaced a part of the fish's skin.

Fungus is easy to confuse with Columnaris. Note that when examined very closely, fungus has distinct hair-like filaments which shoot out, whereas columnaris is more like fuzz or lint.

Treatments include:
Place affected fish in an isolated tank for treatment; it is not necessary to treat the entire tank. This is because spores like these are always present... and only when there is something causing the fish to be susceptible will it contract this or any other problem. You can treat with salt, increased heat, malachite green, methylene blue, or even hydrogen peroxide applied to area (be *very* careful that this does not touch the gills; can be deadly).

Most importantly, identify the cause of stress to the fish and remedy the situation. Whatever it is should explain the fish's loss of immune system to allow the disease to take control. This may be physical stress caused by poor water conditions, elevated levels of ammonia or others, or maybe even aggressive fish bullying others.

Columnaris: Mouth Fungus; Fin Rot disease; Cotton Mouth disease (False Fungus)
Flavobacterium colmnare, Flexibacter columnaris; Bacillus columnaris, Chondrococcus columnaris; Cytophaga columnaris

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Description:
Despite one of the disease's names, Fungus, this is actually a gram-negative rod bacterial disease. Columnaris bacteria will typically attach themselves to a fish's head, mouth, lips, or inside the mouth. Columnaris has different possible appearances:


The mouth "fungus" is commonly called cotton-mouth because the fish's mouth seems to be covered with a thread-like cottonish substance. Since the initial leisions look somewhat like cotton, columnaris is often confused with true fungus. Note that when examined very closely, fungus has distinct hair-like filaments which shoot out, whereas columnaris is more like fuzz or lint.


Columnaris usually affects the mouth area but can also appear as yellowish-brown, white, or grayish-white spots on some part of the head, fins, gills, or body which are usually surrounded by a reddish area. This type commonly takes what is known as a saddleback pattern on the fish's body.
Labyrinth fish and Apistogrammas are highly susceptible to this disease. Prevention includes keeping the water very clean by performing frequent water changes. As with any disease the fish is more susceptible to contract columnaris following stress. Also keep in mind that bacteria bloom in higher temperatures.

Treatments include:
Malachite green (except for fry), salt, Melafix, or antibiotics as a last recourse (such as Spectrogram, Furanace, or Sulfa-based products).

Medications

Notes to mention:
Biological filtration systems are not affected by Mardel products.

Please be sure to use all antibiotics properly: do not stop treatment any sooner than 5 days to prevent bacterial mutations, preferrably 7 or more.

Some fish are intolorant of certain medications; research before using. Especially (these are just examples, there are more): scaleless fish like catfish, invertebrates/snails, fry, and don't forget about the plants. Some instances will be noted below, but not all.

Since many antibiotics kill gram-negative bacteria and the biological nitrifying bacteria of an aquarium are also gram-negative, it is better to quarantine the affected fish instead of treating an entire tank.

Simply choosing an antibiotic, unfortunately, isn't enough. Some bacteria are naturally resistant to specific medications, and some are mutated and will only respond to increased doseages. Often it's not possible to even determine what type of bacteria you're dealing with. Or maybe it's both! If the fish doesn't improve within a few days, switch medications. Or try a broad-spectrum one that kills both gram-negative and positive bacteria, such as neomycin, chloramphenicol, nitrofurazone based products, skin absorbed kanamycin sulfate based antibiotics such as Kanacyn/K-Mycin, or tetracycline. Products such as Spectrogram by Aquatronics is an ultra-wide spectrum antibiotic blend of nitrofurazone and kanamycin that's useful for such purposes.

Gram-positive bacteria are often unaffected by tetracycline and streptomycin.
Gram-negative bacteria may be unaffected by ampicillin, penicillin, erythromycin and sulfa .
Some bacteria may be unaffected by the usual dose, but are susceptible to a higher dose.
Sulfa based drugs are quite effective against Gram negative bacteria.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Bettamax
Manufacturer: Aquatronics
Antibiotic capsules for treating listlessness, poor appetite, damage fins, poor color, vitamin deficiency, bacterial and fungal infections. For freshwater use only. Specific for Bettas, Guppies, and all fancy-finned fish.
Contains: 250 mg nitrofurazone, methylene blue, pvp, vitamins, NaCl sulfas, methazine, diazine, and merazine.


Erythromycin
Bacterial medication that treats gram positive & some gram negative bacteria, including those that cause fin and tail rot, Gill Disease and Molly Disease.


Spectrogram
Ultra-wide spectrum antibiotic for treating: red body patches, hemorrhage, white body slime, protruding scales, bacterial infections, Furunculosis, Columnaris and fungal infections. For use in fresh and marine aquariums. Do not use with invertebrates. Great for quarantine tanks and baths.
Active Ingredients: nitrofurazone, kanamycin.


Tetracycline
Manufacturer: Aquatronics
A broad-spectrum antibiotic used in the treatment of gram-positive and some gram-negative bacterial infections. For infections of fin and tail rot, frayed fins, popeye, inflamed gills, mouth and body open sores/ulcers, livebearer disease, dropsy, Columnaris, and secondary infections such as fungal. Specific for livebearers and goldfish. Aerate the aquarium well when using. Useful for the control of some common bacterial diseases, including Aeromonias and Pseudomonas Genera and the Mysobacterial group.


Maracyn
Manufacturer: Mardel
A broad-spectrum antibiotic for gram-positive bacterial infections. For infections of columnaris (body fungus), fin and tail rot, popeye, gill disease, and secondary infections.
Active ingredient: Erythromycin.


Maracyn–Two
Manufacturer: Mardel
A broad-spectrum antibiotic for internal or external gram negative bacterial infections which can even be absorbed through the skin. Effective treatment of fin and tail rot, popeye, gill disease, dropsy (swollen body, protruding scales), septicemia (bleeding or red streaks on the body), secondary and internal infections. Effective even when fish won't eat.
Active ingredient: Mincycline hydrochlor.


Coppersafe
Manufacturer: Mardel
Chelated copper treatment recommended for the treatment of ick, flukes, anchor worms, velvet, protozoan diseases and other external parasites.


Aquarisol
Manufacturer: Aquarium Products
Mild, effective treatment for curing Ich and other parasite infestations. Contains soluble copper salts.


Methylene Blue
Treats superficial fungal infections of fish. Helps prevent fungal infections on fish eggs; effective against superficial fungal infections. Treats ich. May adversly affect the biological system; quarantine and treat sick fish when possible. Use as an alternative to Malachite Green for the control of fungus when it is known that the fish to be treated are sensitive.


Malachite Green
For treatment of external parasites as well as external fungal infections of fishes and eggs which include Achlya and Saprolegnia.


Clout
Manufacturer: Aquarium Products
A very strong and effective medication for parasitic and protozoan infestations. Treats: Ich, Hydra, leeches, Planaria, Epistylis, Trichodina, Hexamita,Tetrahy-mena, body fungus, digenetic flukes, parasitic copepods, monogenetic flukes and anchor worms.


Maracide
Controls Ich and other common parasites


TriSulfa
For the prevention and control of common bacterial diseases


Maroxy
Anti-fungal for true fungus; also effective against bacteria


Triple Sulfa
Manufacturer: Aquarium Pharmaceuticals
A broad spectrum antibacterial medication that treats fungal infections, furunculosis (aeromonas), fin and tail rot, columnaris, body slime/white body and fin blotches, cloudy eyes, molly disease, and bacterial hemorrhagic septicemia.
Active Ingredients: sulfamethazine, sulfacetamide, and sulfathiazole.


Kanacyn
Manufacturer: Aquatronics
A gram positive and gram negative bacteria treatment for red streaks or hemorrhaging, dropsy, fin and tail rot, inflamed gills, protruding or loss of scales, fungal infections, vibrio, tuberculosis, wasting away and body ulcers.


Super Sulfa
Manufacturer: Aquatronics
Anti-fungal/anti-bacterial medication for treating cottony patches, fin and tail rot, white body and fin blotches, fungal infections, molly disease and bacterial infections.


Furanace
Manufacturer: Aquarium Products
Antibiotic which treats fin and tail rot, mouth and eye sores, cloudy eyes, wasting away, bacterial infections, fungal infections, pop eye, and molly/tetra disease. Do not use with inverts!
Active Ingredient: erythromycin


Myacin
Manufacturer: Aquatronics
Anti-fungal/anti-bacterial medication for treating cottony patches, fin and tail rot, white body and fin blotches, fungal infections, molly disease and bacterial infections.

You can put your betta in a mason jar to treat if you must (of course you'd have to change the water every day or two though), if you don't have any other options. To keep them warm you can sit them on a heating pad (just be sure to test the temp over a 6 hour period before attempting to add your betta/fish..don't want to boil them). This also works for other fish...you can buy dividers for your air pump and a roll of air line..so they can have oxygenated water.

good luck

 

[RinsMom]

Looks like some very good information there.... thank you to all who posted. I really appreciate the information on all the different type of medications, too.

Mom