hi, i saw some pearl danios at the pet store, are these the same as cpd and can they live in coldWater
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not celestial pearl danios
- Thread starter Sgooosh
- Start date
No, Celestial Pearls Danio, aka Galaxy Rasbora, are NOT the same as Pearl Danio.
Without the scientific name, who knows...but I think one can assume they are a very different species. And it is most likely Danio albolineatus. See if the photos on SF match up with the store fish. Maintenance requirements are there too.
Pearl Danio
Celestial Pearl Danio
Celestial Pearl Danio
PlasticGalaxy
Fish Gatherer
They're different fish.
Pearl danios are considered sub-tropical and prefer temperatures of 18-24c. Celestial pearls prefer warmer temperatures between 22-26c.
Pearls aren't necessarily coldwater, but if you meant sub-tropical then go ahead. Obviously make sure your parameters are good for them, tankmates won't clash, e.t.c.
Good luck.
Pearl danios are considered sub-tropical and prefer temperatures of 18-24c. Celestial pearls prefer warmer temperatures between 22-26c.
Pearls aren't necessarily coldwater, but if you meant sub-tropical then go ahead. Obviously make sure your parameters are good for them, tankmates won't clash, e.t.c.
Good luck.
OP
OP
Pearl Danio
Celestial Pearl Danio
dingdingding right on the spotWithout the scientific name, who knows...but I think one can assume they are a very different species. And it is most likely Danio albolineatus. See if the photos on SF match up with the store fish. Maintenance requirements are there too.
thanks a lot
oh that's cool
thanks
i might just keep the small danios with a betta?
Do you mean pearl danios with a betta? No. They need cooler water than a betta and bettas should be kept alone.
If you mean cpds with a betta, no as well. They are very timid fish which I wouldn't keep with an aggressive fish like a betta. And bettas should be kept alone.
If you mean cpds with a betta, no as well. They are very timid fish which I wouldn't keep with an aggressive fish like a betta. And bettas should be kept alone.
English trade names can be confusing. At one point, a local store ordered three new species, and all were 'celestial pearls' when they showed up. That fish had a range of names when it was first introduced to the hobby, and some of those names survive regionally. With the international membership of this forum, I'll wager there is some confusion on that one.
Pearl danios are wonderful fish, but they are active and curious. They are apt to take a taste of betta fins, and then things go very wrong.
I disagree with @Essjay on betta splendens as a community fish. You have to take the genetic modification of the fish into account - those large fins don't happen in nature and are a human made choice. If the Betta has enormous or misshapen fins, then it is probably too handicapped to survive in a community tank. The direction Betta breeding is going in is more and more towards disfunctional fish, much like we've seen happen with goldfish over the years.
if you get a reasonable pet store type Betta splendens, one that can swim, they make excellent community fish that can live very long healthy lives in carefully chosen communities. No guppies, Cichlids, danios etc, but small fish of the lower reaches of the tank are fine. Rasboras and cardinal tetras have worked here. My daughter had a tank with a dozen cardinal tetras and a blue Betta, and the Betta was good for 5 years. The cardinals outlived him by a few years. I've had long lived, un-nipped Bettas in communities of fish that didn't care if they were there or not for years. They've done better than one kept alone.
Bettas are grouchy, but not especially aggressive. And let's face it, our human taste for mutant fins makes them lousy at aggression with any species but their own. It's a bit like being in a swimming race where your competitor is wearing a gigantic wedding dress.
Pearl danios are wonderful fish, but they are active and curious. They are apt to take a taste of betta fins, and then things go very wrong.
I disagree with @Essjay on betta splendens as a community fish. You have to take the genetic modification of the fish into account - those large fins don't happen in nature and are a human made choice. If the Betta has enormous or misshapen fins, then it is probably too handicapped to survive in a community tank. The direction Betta breeding is going in is more and more towards disfunctional fish, much like we've seen happen with goldfish over the years.
if you get a reasonable pet store type Betta splendens, one that can swim, they make excellent community fish that can live very long healthy lives in carefully chosen communities. No guppies, Cichlids, danios etc, but small fish of the lower reaches of the tank are fine. Rasboras and cardinal tetras have worked here. My daughter had a tank with a dozen cardinal tetras and a blue Betta, and the Betta was good for 5 years. The cardinals outlived him by a few years. I've had long lived, un-nipped Bettas in communities of fish that didn't care if they were there or not for years. They've done better than one kept alone.
Bettas are grouchy, but not especially aggressive. And let's face it, our human taste for mutant fins makes them lousy at aggression with any species but their own. It's a bit like being in a swimming race where your competitor is wearing a gigantic wedding dress.
Personal observation of this or that fish is all well and good, and sometimes can be helpful, but it should never be taken as the norm when it varies from the scientific fact. Aquarists are free to make their own decisions, good or bad, but it is important to have the facts from which to make the decisions. The following article sets these out.
Betta splendens seems to live solitary in its natural habitat which is still and sluggish waters, including rice paddies, swamps, roadside ditches, streams and ponds. Such an environment is not conducive to fish that require oxygenated waters so one can expect few if any non-anabantid species to live in such habitats. During the dry season, most bettas are able to bury themselves in the bottom of their dried up habitat. There, they can live in moist cavities until water once again fills the depression during a rainy period. The fish can survive even if thick, clay mud is all that is left of the water. They do not survive total drying out of the bottom (Vierke 1988). There are very few fish species, and none that are found in the same habitats, that can manage life in such conditions, which is further evidence that the B. splendens is most likely a solitary species.
All anabantids are territorial; male bettas instinctively fight each other in defending their territory. Selective breeding over many years has produced fish with a heightened sense of territory defense, which explains the common name of Siamese Fighting Fish. Fish fights for money is a "sport," if you want to use the term for such animal cruelty. This means the bettas we see in stores have an even greater propensity to literally kill each other given the chance. For a fish that instinctively lives alone, and believes it must defend its territory to survive--both traits that are in the genetic blueprint (DNA) for this species--this aggressiveness is likely to extend to any fish that dares enter the betta's territory, which in most cases will be the tank space. And forcing the fish to "live" under such conditions is frankly inhumane.
Individual fish within a species do not always adhere to the "norm" for the species; this is true of all animals, including humans. But with fish, responsible aquarists should research the fish's behaviours, traits, and requirements, and then aim to provide accordingly. "Expectations" are as I said above programmed into the species' DNA, and we are not going to change them just because we may want to have a betta in the tank with "x" fish species. Sometimes the betta seems to co-operate with our experiment, but in many of these situations it may not last for long, eventually if not immediately. Fish that do succumb are likely being severely stressed, unseen to the aquarist until it is too late.
If the betta does not first attack the intruders, the intruders may go after the betta. It is a two-way street, and in either situation it is the betta that loses in the end. Severe stress causing increased aggression, or conversely severe withdrawal from being targeted by the other fish. And physical aggression is not the only concern; fish release pheromones and allomones, chemical communication signals that other fish read, and these can cause stress and promote aggression that will in time weaken the fish to the point of death. There is no reason to risk the fish in one's attempt to prove scientific understanding wrong.
References:
Betta splendens profile on Seriously Fish.com
Hargrove, M. (1999), The Betta: an Owner's Guide to a Happy Healthy Fish, Howell Book House.
Kottelat, M. (2013) "The fishes of the inland waters of southeast Asia: a catalogue and core bibliography of the fishes known to occur in freshwaters, mangroves and estuaries," Raffles Bulletin of Zoology Supplement No. 27: 1-663.
Tan, H. H. and P. K. L. Ng (2005), "The fighting fishes (Teleostei: Osphronemidae: genus Betta) of Singapore, Malaysia and Brunei," Raffles Bulletin of Zoology, Supplement No. 13, pp. 43-99.
Tan, H. H. and P. K. L. Ng (2005), "The labyrinth fishes (Teleostei: Anabanatoidei, Channoidei) of Sumatra, Indonesia," Raffles Bulletin of Zoology, Supplement No. 13, pp. 115-138.
Vierke, J. (1988), Bettas, Gouramis, and Other Anabantoids, T.F.H. Publication, Inc.
Field reports (I know people who have fished for and caught Betta splendens in the wild, but only in Laotian habitats) show the fish living in reasonable densities, however, each male has a small territory and doesn't welcome other males. The video, via go-pro cameras, I have seen of Bettas showed them in grassy habitats, in relatively shallow water. Males held 'stations' - small territories. The habitats were year round, expanding and shrinking with the seasons.
These weren't the serious swamp habitats other populations are found in.
There were other fish - small unidentified Rasboras and another small Anabantoid.
F-1 males from wild parents (I was given a wild pair by the video-maker) surprised me by doing the same in large aquariums. They didn't fight. If you put males together from different sources, you apparently get bloody mayhem. I would never try such an experiment. But when I was too slow removing my f-1 male young, they worked it out.
I have seen this twice, with Betta splendens from 2 different sources.
We can only assume that the ferocious fighting has been bred into them via selection for gambling. Betta fighting is a horrible activity that still flourishes, and its marks are in the behaviour of domesticated Bettas. Those fins people like started out as part of a bloody and cruel show.
Now, I just went to Kottelat, p453 in the document you cited, and all I learned was that the first description of splendens included a mistake about its origins. Interesting, but not connected to the point. The same is true of Tan et al. It was all taxonomy info. Vierke on TFH and Seriously Fish are secondary sources. So what's the point of dazzling us with science? You give sources and people should read them. I did. I know more now about dissecting them and identifying species that way, but not about their habitats. Good papers though - thanks.
I've written on Bettas, mostly other wild species than splendens, and done the research, even though I am not a scientist. I've had my work peer reviewed by some very fierce eyes. The process is really useful, and tough.
We obviously have to separate the wild fish from the domesticated form. They are very different. But I've never had a domestic Betta in a properly sized tank persist in chasing tankmates for more than a day or two, and as long as I stayed with small peaceful tankmates, the Bettas were left in peace. Your cited source in Seriously Fish warns that research should go into choosing tankmates if you choose not to keep them alone. That's basic to any species.
These weren't the serious swamp habitats other populations are found in.
There were other fish - small unidentified Rasboras and another small Anabantoid.
F-1 males from wild parents (I was given a wild pair by the video-maker) surprised me by doing the same in large aquariums. They didn't fight. If you put males together from different sources, you apparently get bloody mayhem. I would never try such an experiment. But when I was too slow removing my f-1 male young, they worked it out.
I have seen this twice, with Betta splendens from 2 different sources.
We can only assume that the ferocious fighting has been bred into them via selection for gambling. Betta fighting is a horrible activity that still flourishes, and its marks are in the behaviour of domesticated Bettas. Those fins people like started out as part of a bloody and cruel show.
Now, I just went to Kottelat, p453 in the document you cited, and all I learned was that the first description of splendens included a mistake about its origins. Interesting, but not connected to the point. The same is true of Tan et al. It was all taxonomy info. Vierke on TFH and Seriously Fish are secondary sources. So what's the point of dazzling us with science? You give sources and people should read them. I did. I know more now about dissecting them and identifying species that way, but not about their habitats. Good papers though - thanks.
I've written on Bettas, mostly other wild species than splendens, and done the research, even though I am not a scientist. I've had my work peer reviewed by some very fierce eyes. The process is really useful, and tough.
We obviously have to separate the wild fish from the domesticated form. They are very different. But I've never had a domestic Betta in a properly sized tank persist in chasing tankmates for more than a day or two, and as long as I stayed with small peaceful tankmates, the Bettas were left in peace. Your cited source in Seriously Fish warns that research should go into choosing tankmates if you choose not to keep them alone. That's basic to any species.
Agreed. There is no reason to say that in this context, either. Everyone posting here is smart enough to take a little time and look up the right information.
I certainly agree, but unfortunately there is often more misinformation than accurate information in this hobby. Fish store advice is not reliable, nor is the "information" one finds on YouTube, unless one knows the source, and that is not easy, especially for beginners. I think just about every new member's post mentions the confusing opposite information on this or that.
Agreed. Our disagreement, @Byron , is a tempest in a teacup, and we both don't want Bettas kept in teacups.
One of the things I used to do for my editing work was trace aquarium myths - often they went back to early authors who said "when we get to keep fish X it will probably do this and that". By the 2nd author, it had often become "fish X does this and that", and the broken telephone of fish lore was off and running. The same formula would show up in popular aquarium literature for decades, and still does. It's become even worse online, with no editors to spot the problems. If you find a paper, or aquarists with info different from the lore and talk about it, you get hammered online.
One of my favourite fish was named after the Ichthyologist who edited some of my stuff, and he scared the bejjeebers out of me. He was so thorough, and I had to offer sources for everything. We sure don't have that online.
I did a lot with Apistogramma dwarf cichlids, often keeping and breeding species for the first time. If you referred back to the most easy to get source , Richter on TFH press, they were all apparently the same to keep and breed. Nothing could have been more wrong as we learned how diverse the group was, but then again, when Richter was writing, the new info (and species) just weren't available.
I've seen that exact 45 year old error repeated online recently.
If a new aquarist who reads this walks into a store and see a fish they don't know, they can pull out the phone and check it on Seriously Fish. They've become an excellent source of info, and info is what you need. The old days when you'd ask a good store to lend you their copy of the Baensch Atlas so you could read up are gone, but hitting the good sources is a good way to end up talking fish with experienced nerds like a bunch of us here.
One of the things I used to do for my editing work was trace aquarium myths - often they went back to early authors who said "when we get to keep fish X it will probably do this and that". By the 2nd author, it had often become "fish X does this and that", and the broken telephone of fish lore was off and running. The same formula would show up in popular aquarium literature for decades, and still does. It's become even worse online, with no editors to spot the problems. If you find a paper, or aquarists with info different from the lore and talk about it, you get hammered online.
One of my favourite fish was named after the Ichthyologist who edited some of my stuff, and he scared the bejjeebers out of me. He was so thorough, and I had to offer sources for everything. We sure don't have that online.
I did a lot with Apistogramma dwarf cichlids, often keeping and breeding species for the first time. If you referred back to the most easy to get source , Richter on TFH press, they were all apparently the same to keep and breed. Nothing could have been more wrong as we learned how diverse the group was, but then again, when Richter was writing, the new info (and species) just weren't available.
I've seen that exact 45 year old error repeated online recently.
If a new aquarist who reads this walks into a store and see a fish they don't know, they can pull out the phone and check it on Seriously Fish. They've become an excellent source of info, and info is what you need. The old days when you'd ask a good store to lend you their copy of the Baensch Atlas so you could read up are gone, but hitting the good sources is a good way to end up talking fish with experienced nerds like a bunch of us here.
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