Noob Question On Community Tank Occupants

[Nerwign]

I had a 20 gallon aquarium for a long time when I was younger. It has been so long ago that I'm not sure which fish I kept, though I remember a Blue Ram, Tiger Barbs (they cycled the tank), black skirt tetras and kuhli loaches. The heater broke and heated the fish until it was too late, and with a sad heart, I put the aquarium away, not to house fish again.

I have always wanted to set up a new aquarium and I just purchased a 55gallon long last weekend. It is dry with no amenities. I have purchased a slew of plastic plants (I am not comfortable with live plants, sadly), and am hunting down the right substrate, lighting and filter. I have purchased a single 250W heater.

I am trying to figure out what fish I can house together and here is what I am thinking of. I would like some help.

10 Cardinal Tetras
1 Snowball Plecostomas (or Tiger Plecostomas)
1-2 Dwarf Gourami
1-2 Blue Ram
4 Kuhli Loaches
2 Ghost Shrimp

I realized today that this may be too bottom-heavy and I should probably abandon the idea of the ghost shrimp. Do you agree?

Can you keep two male Rams together?

Can you keep two male Dwarf Gouramis together?

If not, I will only get a single fish of these sorts, or if they need a school I will not purchase them at all.

Are there other fish that stay three inches or under that could be housed with these fish? (I realize the loaches and pleco get 4-5.5 inches)

Penultimately, I think these fish require similar pH levels. I also think that the pH they require is probably lower than my tap water. Should I not mess with my tap water pH and instead find fish that will be comfortable in it, or should I try to change my tap to the pH levels for the fish (6.8 in this case?). I would like to keep these fish and would like to change my water to meet their needs, but I have read that I should not try to change my pH at all.. I do not know what I should do.

Ultimately, I am also looking for advice on a filter for the tank. I have read very good things about Eheims canister filters (the classic, and pro series) and am wondering if anyone else has used them or has recomendations or warnings about them.

Thank you in advance for any assistance you can provide for me. If there is already a thread about filters that I was not able to find, maybe someone who knows how to navigate these forums well can point me in the right direction.

-Nerwign
Southern California

PS I am hoping to introduce fish to my tank about late December or early January, after I cycle it, I suppose with fishless cycling if I get it figured out properly.

 

[joloco]

the short answer is no i don't believe so, although maybe the rams on reflection as you have quite a lot of water for them to establish their own territories in but definately not the gouramis as they are or can be depending on the individual - agressive. in my experience gouramis and rams together won't work as the gourami will bully the gentler ram.

i would still be cautious about the two male rams - but you could happily keep a male and female

as for the gouramis a pair (male and female) could work but if you get an aggressive male you might find yourself needing a small harem to distribute his attentions. there are many very helpful posts by dwarfgourami on the topic or these below (couldn't find the dwarfg. ones)

http/www.fishforums.net/index.php?showtopic=153493
http/www.fishforums.net/index.php?showtopic=44123


to soften your water you will need an RO unit, this can be expensive but is effective

 

[Nerwign]

Thank you for the info. I can't seem to find any female rams in the fish stores anywhere near me. They just don't seem to exist

I had heard that the dwarf gouramis are very peaceful community fish but I don't want him to bully the ram, so I will have to research that more before I consider housing the two species together.

So the pH of the water is something that would have to be monitored by a seperate device? The water cannot simply be altered before introduction to the tank and have the pH remain stable? What causes it to change in the home environment? Why wouldn't my tap water change over time in the aquarium too?

-Nerwign

 

[joloco]

okay - i'm getting a little out of my depth here but can tell you what i know

you can change the ph in say a bucket before you add it using chemicals - i don't know how tricky this is to get right

an RO (reverse osmosis) unit will make the water softer ie. more acidic but i'm not sure about the ph - my instinct says yes it will change it but i'm hesitant to say by how much. i believe it works by making softer water which you then add to the tank as opposed to being connected to the tank and constantly monitoring the levels.

as for changing in the tank - your ph won't change in the tank unless something in there causes it to change - mine sits at the same level as my tap water but i belive over time it should turn more acidic
just had a read of this post - probably quite helpful general background on why ph changes
http/www.fishforums.net/index.php?showtopic=162782

although i know during cycling it can jump around as the bacteria establish themselves and your ammonia, nitrite and nitrate levels change

hope this is helpful and not too vague - someone else will be able to tell you about the exact particulars of RO units, i'm sorry i don't know much about them


on the fish front - i'm not sure how other types of gourami would react to rams... there is a gourami forum which might be more help

this might be of help
http/www.fishforums.net/index.php?showtopic=163015

 

[jollysue]

I didn't find honeys or sparkling gouramis to be very aggressive, although 1 male 2 female is recommended

I always have lots of aged driftwood in my tropical tanks, and I have peat, although I have not used it. It can be added to the filter, and it will soften/lower the ph or so I understand.

 

[Miss Wiggle]

OK regaridng stocking I think that's fine. Dwarf gourami's aren't anywhere near as agressive as 'normal' gourami's' I've kept them with ram's with no issues at all. however do make sure there are places for the ram's to hide as they are quite shy.

dwarf gourami's however can be a little weak, there's a pinned article by nmonks on the subject in the gourami section, have a read of it.

filters eheim = good, fluval = bad..... go with the eheim canister's.

what is your ph? you'll find that if the fish are bred locally (not just sold in a shop near you but actually born and raised in similar water to yours) then you'll probably be ok. so it's worth trying to find out who the breeders near you are and who supplies your lfs. There are options to lower your ph though, a layer of peat in your filter will bring it down, bogwood works but only temporarily, after a few month's it'll stop having any effect. an RO unit can work but is costly, (£50 for a basic unit) hard work, wastes an awful amount of water and you have to add minerals etc back into it. I wouldn't recommend it.

If you don't want to tinker with your ph then a 55g long would be excellent for a african rift lake cichlid tank. Like malawi's. maybe look into that.

 

[jollysue]

Yeah, Miss Wiggle, I think if I had really hard water, I would have gone with African Rift to start. As it is my water is in the middle, about 7.5. But I do see a lot of Brits go with cories which are not usually fond of hard water and some will not thrive I hear.

I saw that about the honeys and sparklers. It's a shame. Sweet fish.

 

[Miss Wiggle]

Yeah, Miss Wiggle, I think if I had really hard water, I would have gone with African Rift to start. As it is my water is in the middle, about 7.5. But I do see a lot of brits go with cories which are not usually fond of hard water and some will not thrive I hear.

I saw that about the honeys and sparklers. It's a shame. Sweet fish.

yup ours is 7.2 - 7.4 and we've never really had any problems. raised it a bit when we had tanganayikan's but other than that we just leave it as it is.

 

[dwarfgourami]

It depends on the corys- some of the less common ones are fussy, but not really the bronzes or peppers. My ph is sometimes as high as 8.4, but my peppereds spawn happily on a regular basis.

 

[joloco]

i keep lepards and bandits in 8.5 if thats of any help

maybe i had a particularly mean dwarf gourami but he bullied two rams to death so do becareful

 

[Nerwign]

Thank you, everyone, for your help. I will keep a close watch on any dwarf gourami I house with a ram or two. Possibly if he is a bully I could return him to try another dwarf gourami (I did read about these guys, I'll keep my fingers crossed for good health. I think the bright blue ones aren't a hybrid though? and therefore might survive better?).

As for the pH what I had been thinking of doing was setting up the tank and letting it cycle all the way through, then trying to get the pH to where I think the fish need it. Then during water changes, when I add new water, I would modify the new water in a bucket before adding to the tank.

As far as the malawi's they do look like beautiful fish but I'm not sure they are my thing. I'd like a lot of little fish instead of a few big ones (my parents keep a 50 gallon with 1 oscar, 2 tinfoil barbs and 1 pleco). I'll have to get a kit and test my water, maybe I will be pleasantly surprised and it will be a bit lower than I thought. I have heard it's around 7 but if it's even 6.8 that would be really nice for the fish I'm thinking of.

I really appreciate the input and I will try to get an Eheim canister as soon as I get paid again *lol* (that's why it's taking me so long to set up, $100-200 per month until I have all the bits and pieces to add water).

Anyone here in the US who can tell me about mail-ordering gravel online? It seems like the shipping would be expensive but the stores around here are terrible with prices. I just can't see spending $1/lb on rocks, even if they're pretty

OH! Can anyone recomend me a gravel color with the fish I'm thinking of? I think I will have a "green, underwater plant" background paper, and am thinking of a white/pearl colored gravel or a pale tan. Does that sound like a good idea rather than a dark walnut color gravel?

-Nerwign

 

[jollysue]

I use drsfostersmith.com for almost all my supplies. It is an extra $4 per bag I think + the normal shipping. But if you were buying say an Eheim filter say w/ the substrate it would probably be less than the LFS. The trick with shipping is buying enough at one time to spread the shipping cost out so it averages very little per $. The Eheim filters are on sale there now. I just ordered one.

Say you bought an Eheim Pro II 2026 Kit for up to a 100 usg tank at 179.99 on sale. And two 25 ib bags of natural river gravel (for a 50 usg tank) at $15.99 each, the supplies would be 211.97 + 14.99 shipping = $226.96

I just ordered substrate and there dosn't appear to be the extra $4 charge per bag. If you just got the gravel for a 1" substrate in a 100 usg it would be 4x$15.99 + 9.99 for shipping = $73.95. Depending on the state and the supplier there may not be taxes when ordering online. I have found ordering online to be very much cheaper.

 

[Miss Wiggle]

Thank you, everyone, for your help. I will keep a close watch on any dwarf gourami I house with a ram or two. Possibly if he is a bully I could return him to try another dwarf gourami (I did read about these guys, I'll keep my fingers crossed for good health. I think the bright blue ones aren't a hybrid though? and therefore might survive better?).

As for the pH what I had been thinking of doing was setting up the tank and letting it cycle all the way through, then trying to get the pH to where I think the fish need it. Then during water changes, when I add new water, I would modify the new water in a bucket before adding to the tank.

As far as the malawi's they do look like beautiful fish but I'm not sure they are my thing. I'd like a lot of little fish instead of a few big ones (my parents keep a 50 gallon with 1 oscar, 2 tinfoil barbs and 1 pleco). I'll have to get a kit and test my water, maybe I will be pleasantly surprised and it will be a bit lower than I thought. I have heard it's around 7 but if it's even 6.8 that would be really nice for the fish I'm thinking of.

I really appreciate the input and I will try to get an Eheim canister as soon as I get paid again *lol* (that's why it's taking me so long to set up, $100-200 per month until I have all the bits and pieces to add water).

Anyone here in the US who can tell me about mail-ordering gravel online? It seems like the shipping would be expensive but the stores around here are terrible with prices. I just can't see spending $1/lb on rocks, even if they're pretty

OH! Can anyone recomend me a gravel color with the fish I'm thinking of? I think I will have a "green, underwater plant" background paper, and am thinking of a white/pearl colored gravel or a pale tan. Does that sound like a good idea rather than a dark walnut color gravel?

-Nerwign

good stuff, get a test kit and see what your water is, that's the first thing I reckon. If it's 7 you'll be fine for most tropicals and I wouldn't advise you to tinker with it. ph can be very tricky to get adjusted right so if it's not far out it's best to leave it and spend more time acclimitising your fish instead of changing the ph. You can easily do more harm than good.

If you want gravel I'd just go with the most natural looking colour you can find, a mix of a few shades of pale brown is best i think, however I much prefer using sand as my substrate so have a think about that too!

 

[jollysue]

Yeah, I don't prefer gravel. For a heavily planted tank, I use a planted tank substrate, and being lazy I get the stuff that doesn't need rinsing: Eco Complete. For cories and other bottom fish just steralized concrete sand (a couple of bucks for 50 pounds.) For African tanks, Eco Complete Cichlid sand. Really you can't beat using medium weight steralized building sand for the price.

 

[Nerwign]

Thanks everyone! I've read that sand is more difficult to maintain for a beginer than gravel, is that true? What are the difficulties of sand over gravel?

I have always used gravel and I know how to clean it during a water change. Is it different with sand?

I have not been happy with the selection of gravel lately, and thinking of getting Kuhli Loaches makes me want to ensure my gravel/substrate is smooth so it doesn't abrade their sensitive skin. I imagine sand would be much better for this.

-Nerwign



I just read through the article on sand, and I think I should try it. I intend to have the loaches, and I don't mind adding a couple of snails.

I didn't quite understand though, how you can have a good layer of gravel underneath a 1cm layer of sand? Won't the sand get mixed up a lot with the gravel until it isn't a layer on top anymore?

Don't you still need to clean the sand when you do a water change? If so, how do you clean only the top 1cm and not any deeper, or if you clean deeper how would you keep the layers serarate?

Any help would be appreciated. I really like the idea of using sand.

-Nerwign