Nitrates

[jonnyc88]

After a few teething issues I've finally got the cycle to complete in my new-ish tank (2 months old).

However now I face another issue, nitrates. I test daily and it seems to hover about 25-30ppm mark.
According to my local water authority Nitrates was tested to be about 16ppm, so it's pretty high to start with and unless I do 50%+ water changes it's hard to see noticable drops.

Yesterday I cleaned to filter and carried out early maintenance. Noticed some plant matter on the mechanical media pads when rinsing in tank water, which is to me a bit dirty for a filter that's been running about 3 weeks or so.

I've also removed some plants that looks like they are not doing too well and added 1 marimos ball and some Egeria Najas.
Finally I did a 50% water change.
Parameters are pretty good after this as the Nitrates tested very close to the colour of tap water. It's very hard to tell with the API kit so best estimate here, I'd say it's 20ppm.

Today noticed the water a bit cloudy when I carried out my daily test. Luckily Ammonia and Nitrites still 0ppm so hopefully I didn't mess up during the filter maintenance.
However Nitrates is showing as about 30ppm (between 20 and 40ppm in the API chart, definitely not dark enough to be 40ppm but slightly darker than 20ppm).

I am thinking of reducing feeding from twice daily to once daily.
I notice that the fish always appears hungry and all food fed are finished within few minutes (except Corydoras tables which takes about 30 min).

Just wondering if there's anything else I can do?
I've read that some chemicals like Algone can help reduce Nitrate.
I've also read that for some tropical fish anything below 40ppm should be ok.
Tank is a pretty heavily planted tank with variety of plants, including a floating plant (salvinia)

 

[PheonixKingZ]

It sounds like you are doing everything correctly...

I personally don’t keep my nitrates over 20ppm. The only reason why you would want your nitrates that high, is if you are breeding fish.

Are you going off of your readings? Or your water companies readings? (What test kit do you have?)

 

[jonnyc88]

It sounds like you are doing everything correctly...

I personally don’t keep my nitrates over 20ppm. The only reason why you would want your nitrates that high, is if you are breeding fish.

Are you going off of your readings? Or your water companies readings? (What test kit do you have?)

Thanks for the reply @PheonixKingZ

The water authority readings is from their website , taken for March 2020. The average is around 16.6ppm according to them.

I’ve verified this with API Master Kit. It shows light orange. If I do big water change I can match the colour to the one from tap water (light orange). Personally I think it’s just below 20ppm.

I think I had some problems with rotting or dying plants which I hope I had resolved after big maintenance yesterday but today Nitrate is showing just above 20ppm according to API (not dark enough to be 40ppm).

Just a bit worried here, fish looks happy enough though and I noticed my algae problem had reduced. I used to get some on the glass and on leaves (brown spots).

Perhaps I should reduce feed to once a day as my stocking is a bit in the high side. Definitely not over feeding as fish devours food quickly. Just feel bit bad sometimes as afraid I’m starving the fish, sometimes catch barbs nipping at the plants.

Heard Algone can reduce nitrates but don’t really want to go down the chemical route.

 

[PheonixKingZ]

I would reduce feeding slightly and remove any dead/rotting plants.

I would not go down the chemical route if I were you... try the things I mentioned, and see what comes out of it.

 

[Essjay]

The only reason why you would want your nitrates that high, is if you are breeding fish.

Nitrate is not needed for breeding fish, I don't know where you got that from. Whether breeding or not, nitrate should be as low as possible, and ideally under 20 ppm. This is more difficult when tap nitrate is over 20 ppm.

Nitrate is made in a tank by something adding ammonia, which is then converted into nitrite then nitrate. This could be fish excreting ammonia or left over food, fish poop or dead plants decomposing.
Fish in an overstocked tank will produce a lot of ammonia. If there are a lot of fast growing plants, they will remove most, if not all , of this ammonia but only a few plants, especially if they are not healthy, won't be able to take up all of the ammonia.

With an over stocked tank, you need to be doing water changes of at least 75% every week, and siphoning as much uneaten food and fish poop out of the gravel/off the sand as possible. The filter media needs to be cleaned at least every two weeks as the brown goo that builds up in there is also decomposing uneaten food and fish poop. This goo is often referred to as a nitrate factory.

Reducing the fish numbers will help to keep nitrate under control, or getting a bigger tank for the fish you have.
The egeria (anacharis) you've just got is fast growing and will help by removing ammonia before it can be turned into nitrate.
How many plants and what type to you have?

 

[jonnyc88]

Nitrate is not needed for breeding fish, I don't know where you got that from. Whether breeding or not, nitrate should be as low as possible, and ideally under 20 ppm. This is more difficult when tap nitrate is over 20 ppm.

Nitrate is made in a tank by something adding ammonia, which is then converted into nitrite then nitrate. This could be fish excreting ammonia or left over food, fish poop or dead plants decomposing.
Fish in an overstocked tank will produce a lot of ammonia. If there are a lot of fast growing plants, they will remove most, if not all , of this ammonia but only a few plants, especially if they are not healthy, won't be able to take up all of the ammonia.

With an over stocked tank, you need to be doing water changes of at least 75% every week, and siphoning as much uneaten food and fish poop out of the gravel/off the sand as possible. The filter media needs to be cleaned at least every two weeks as the brown goo that builds up in there is also decomposing uneaten food and fish poop. This goo is often referred to as a nitrate factory.

Reducing the fish numbers will help to keep nitrate under control, or getting a bigger tank for the fish you have.
The egeria (anacharis) you've just got is fast growing and will help by removing ammonia before it can be turned into nitrate.
How many plants and what type to you have?

Hi @essjay, below are the pictures of the plants in my tank after tidying up.
Please excuse the mess, I am still not 100% happy with the look but for now I'm focussing on solving the Nitrate issue first.
I might most probably replant or remove some of the Heteranthera Zosterifolia on the left and replace with more Egeria Najas.
The output flow is on the right so not really ideal to plant Egeria there.

Here's the list of plants in the tank:
1) The plant the orange arrow pointing at is, I believe Microsorum Pteropus 'Narrow'
2) 2 plants tied on top of decorations (back left and middle log) - Anubias
3) 1 just infront of the tall decoration to the right (just behind the egeria najas) - Cryptocoryne Beckettii 'Petchii'
4) Massive plant rear right - Echinodorus 'Bleherae'
5) x1 Marimos ball (added 2 days ago)
6) Tall plant left and middle rear - think they are Heteranthera Zosterifolia. These grow VERY fast and tall as you can see from 2nd picture
7) Salvinias
8) Cultured grass plants - Eleocharis Acicularis
9) Egeria Najas to the front left and right (added 2 days ago)

75% water change weekly is not problem for me, as you mention I have around 16ppm nitrate in tap water doesn't help.
I don't think I notice much brown goo when I cleaned filter yesterday, mainly dark green-ish stains when rinsed turns out to be mostly plant material.
The recommendation is monthly filter maintenance but I can definitely consider cleaning every 2 weeks.

Any advice regarding my aquascaping would also be appreciated

 

[PheonixKingZ]

Your tank looks good!

I would add some taller plants in the back, and add a nice piece of driftwood.

 

[JBAwrench]

Purigen.
Pothos plant.
Nitrate pads.

 

[jonnyc88]

Your tank looks good!

I would add some taller plants in the back, and add a nice piece of driftwood.

Thanks buddy I'm a technical person so I've setup the tank from a functional point of view rather than the artistic one.
Glad to know it's not too shabby and am always open to advice

Did think of driftwood to replace the artificial decorations, to make my tank 100% natural.
However need to do some research of driftwood it's quite a lot of work to find the right one from the right place. I have also read that you need to soak for few days in hot or boiling water.
Also read that driftwood, as expected has a limited shelf life, so will need to change it after a while. Definitely need more research into this before I fully commit.

Would love some taller plants but not sure what to get. Prefer one that doesn't grow as fast as the Heteranthera and able to "cover" some of the surface.

 

[jonnyc88]

Purigen.
Pothos plant.
Nitrate pads.

Thanks, I will have a look at your suggestions.
Seachem Purigen does sound like ideal solution to replace carbon on my top media basket. However need to be careful with what water conditioners I use it seems.

 

[PheonixKingZ]

Thanks buddy I'm a technical person so I've setup the tank from a functional point of view rather than the artistic one.
Glad to know it's not too shabby and am always open to advice

Did think of driftwood to replace the artificial decorations, to make my tank 100% natural.
However need to do some research of driftwood it's quite a lot of work to find the right one from the right place. I have also read that you need to soak for few days in hot or boiling water.
Also read that driftwood, as expected has a limited shelf life, so will need to change it after a while. Definitely need more research into this before I fully commit.

Would love some taller plants but not sure what to get. Prefer one that doesn't grow as fast as the Heteranthera and able to "cover" some of the surface.

As far as “tall” plants go I would get Anacharis. They will get as tall as you let them, and they are very easy to grow.

Like you said, boiling driftwood will cause the wood fiber to break down faster, causing to less life in a tank. I don’t suggest boiling driftwood. Most people do so, to get rid of any small insects hat may have got into the small cracks and crevices.

If you are buying from a fish store, the wood is usually already cleaned - therefore, has no need to be boiled.

A good scrub in hot water should do the trick for cleaning it. Most driftwood has “tannis” in it, which will leak out into your tank if you do not sock it first. (And by soak, I mean leaving it in a bucket of water, for a long time. Or, until the water is clear. Some people like their water with a high tannis level, I do not prefer it...)

There are also different species of driftwood, all with different shapes, sizes, and color. Do your research, look around, see what you like.

(My personal favorite is mopani driftwood - the by piece you can see in the picture. It usually has a nice dark color to it)

 

[JBAwrench]

Thanks, I will have a look at your suggestions.
Seachem Purigen does sound like ideal solution to replace carbon on my top media basket. However need to be careful with what water conditioners I use it seems.

Purigen is not a water condition
It's just magic in a bag hahahaha.

 

[AdoraBelle Dearheart]

I think I had some problems with rotting or dying plants which I hope I had resolved after big maintenance yesterday but today Nitrate is showing just above 20ppm according to API (not dark enough to be 40ppm).
Heard Algone can reduce nitrates but don’t really want to go down the chemical route.

I don't think I notice much brown goo when I cleaned filter yesterday, mainly dark green-ish stains when rinsed turns out to be mostly plant material.
The recommendation is monthly filter maintenance but I can definitely consider cleaning every 2 weeks.

Don't go down the chemical route, especially in such a new tank. Get into routine maintenance, filter cleaning, maintaining the plants and letting them settle in and grow. As they establish and you balance lights/ferts/trimming etc, you should have less dead plant matter to contend with, and less rotting organics adding to your nitrates.

How often to clean the filter can't be a set recommendation of once a month, or once a fortnight even, since it depends on your stocking and periods of growth and failure with your plants. Wherever you saw it said to do it once a month, doesn't take into account that you have a new load of plants in there that are establishing and shedding dead leaves, dropping needles etc. If you have a plant dying, or do a big clean that removes a lot of algae and stirs up mulm, common sense approach is needed, knowing that a lot of that is going to be stuck in your filter. A cleaning doesn't have to mean fully dismantling the canister either, just rinse the worst of the organics off in your old tank water every two weeks, or the day after you've trimmed all the plants, then a proper clean with all the pipes and things once a month.

I am thinking of reducing feeding from twice daily to once daily.
I notice that the fish always appears hungry and all food fed are finished within few minutes (except Corydoras tables which takes about 30 min).

Fish have a knack for always looking hungry and "begging" to be fed, you really can't use that as a guide to feeding. Most people over feed, which isn't healthy for the fish and will pollute the tank much faster. You can still feed them twice a day, just cut the amount back, and remember that a fishes stomach is only the size of its eye, even when it still seems ravenous.

Also read that driftwood, as expected has a limited shelf life, so will need to change it after a while. Definitely need more research into this before I fully commit.

Would love some taller plants but not sure what to get. Prefer one that doesn't grow as fast as the Heteranthera and able to "cover" some of the surface.

Driftwood does break down faster after boiling, but we're still talking about a lifespan of years to a decade, so most of us think it's worth doing, to be safe that nothing parasitic or toxic is going on in there. Soaking to remove tannins and help waterlog depends on what wood you get, some waterlog within days and don't release a huge amount of tannins, some leech tannins for a long time. See what woods appeal to you and you'll be find more info on how to prepare them
If you don't want anything too fast growing, don't get anacharis. Personally I don't think it would look good with the plants you already have, but it's also very fast growing.
I'm always one for more plants, but I would wait a while before adding more. You have a nice selection already that have only been in there for two months. Now it's a case of being patient and allowing them to fill out. As they fill out and grow, they will soak up more ammonia, lowering your nitrates more.

 

[utahfish]

After a few teething issues I've finally got the cycle to complete in my new-ish tank (2 months old).

However now I face another issue, nitrates. I test daily and it seems to hover about 25-30ppm mark.
According to my local water authority Nitrates was tested to be about 16ppm, so it's pretty high to start with and unless I do 50%+ water changes it's hard to see noticable drops.

Yesterday I cleaned to filter and carried out early maintenance. Noticed some plant matter on the mechanical media pads when rinsing in tank water, which is to me a bit dirty for a filter that's been running about 3 weeks or so.

I've also removed some plants that looks like they are not doing too well and added 1 marimos ball and some Egeria Najas.
Finally I did a 50% water change.
Parameters are pretty good after this as the Nitrates tested very close to the colour of tap water. It's very hard to tell with the API kit so best estimate here, I'd say it's 20ppm.

Today noticed the water a bit cloudy when I carried out my daily test. Luckily Ammonia and Nitrites still 0ppm so hopefully I didn't mess up during the filter maintenance.
However Nitrates is showing as about 30ppm (between 20 and 40ppm in the API chart, definitely not dark enough to be 40ppm but slightly darker than 20ppm).

I am thinking of reducing feeding from twice daily to once daily.
I notice that the fish always appears hungry and all food fed are finished within few minutes (except Corydoras tables which takes about 30 min).

Just wondering if there's anything else I can do?
I've read that some chemicals like Algone can help reduce Nitrate.
I've also read that for some tropical fish anything below 40ppm should be ok.
Tank is a pretty heavily planted tank with variety of plants, including a floating plant (salvinia)

I wouldnt add any chemical product that claims to get rid of nitrates. You could always feed every other day rather than once a day.
Fish are opportunistic feeders and will eat when food is presented. Unless one is breeding or feeding fry fish can go days without eating.
Other than that one could mix RO water to decrease nitrate.

 

[jonnyc88]

Don't go down the chemical route, especially in such a new tank. Get into routine maintenance, filter cleaning, maintaining the plants and letting them settle in and grow. As they establish and you balance lights/ferts/trimming etc, you should have less dead plant matter to contend with, and less rotting organics adding to your nitrates.

How often to clean the filter can't be a set recommendation of once a month, or once a fortnight even, since it depends on your stocking and periods of growth and failure with your plants. Wherever you saw it said to do it once a month, doesn't take into account that you have a new load of plants in there that are establishing and shedding dead leaves, dropping needles etc. If you have a plant dying, or do a big clean that removes a lot of algae and stirs up mulm, common sense approach is needed, knowing that a lot of that is going to be stuck in your filter. A cleaning doesn't have to mean fully dismantling the canister either, just rinse the worst of the organics off in your old tank water every two weeks, or the day after you've trimmed all the plants, then a proper clean with all the pipes and things once a month.


Fish have a knack for always looking hungry and "begging" to be fed, you really can't use that as a guide to feeding. Most people over feed, which isn't healthy for the fish and will pollute the tank much faster. You can still feed them twice a day, just cut the amount back, and remember that a fishes stomach is only the size of its eye, even when it still seems ravenous.

Driftwood does break down faster after boiling, but we're still talking about a lifespan of years to a decade, so most of us think it's worth doing, to be safe that nothing parasitic or toxic is going on in there. Soaking to remove tannins and help waterlog depends on what wood you get, some waterlog within days and don't release a huge amount of tannins, some leech tannins for a long time. See what woods appeal to you and you'll be find more info on how to prepare them
If you don't want anything too fast growing, don't get anacharis. Personally I don't think it would look good with the plants you already have, but it's also very fast growing.
I'm always one for more plants, but I would wait a while before adding more. You have a nice selection already that have only been in there for two months. Now it's a case of being patient and allowing them to fill out. As they fill out and grow, they will soak up more ammonia, lowering your nitrates more.

Thanks for the great advice @AdoraBelle Dearheart, greatly appreciate the time it took for you to compose that.

I also agree that in terms of plant stocking I am probably there. I'd probably trim down the Heteranthera Zosterifolia a little. It's great growing plant and provides some anchorage for the floating Salvinias but seems to shed lots of dead leaves often, especially when they grow all the way to the surface. What are your thoughts on them? They are the long tall plants to the front left and middle rear of the tank.

I will make a note to give the canister filter quick clean perhaps every 2 weeks or so depending on how dirty it gets.
I decided to do a maintenance earlier than scheduled as I noticed the tank smelling a bit and last time this happened my filter was really, really dirty. So perhaps I'll use both my eyes and nose as guide.

I now tend to the plants daily to ensure I remove any dead or dying plant matter as soon as I can. In regards to feeding I've already reduced feeding as much as I can. The barbs are really quick and gobble up the food before any of the tetras have a chance so sometimes I may feed a little more than usual. This is why I think it's safer for me to feed once a day.
Everytime I feed I make sure there's no food left uneaten. Sometimes there are tiny amount of pallets but they dissapear next morning