Newbie frustrations: Cylcling- Ammonia- ick

[bookseller]

After getting a handle on killer ammonia levels and seeing acceptable levels over last few days (plus a tiger barb get "un-stressed" ie; better) a peppered catfish died today plus I see ick on the tiger barbs.

Bought ick medicine and per instruction put one teaspoon in my 10 gal tank. Then I read "caution" on label. It said not to use with tetras and of course I have two neon tetras in tank.

So.. I put Tiger Barbs in separate container with treatment and drained and refilled 90% of the tank. Hope the neon tretras will be OK.

I'm tempted to "toss out" the barbs, finish cycling the tank with the two neons I have left and then add a school of neon tetras once cycled.

What do you think?

 

[juliethegr8t]

Your neons really might not survive the cycle, I'm really surprised they've made it so far. The neons I tried to cycle my tank with kicked the bucket the first night! They're just not the hardiest fish. As for your ich - what medicine were you using? I used Quick Cure for my outbreak, and you just use half a dose when tetras are in the tank - seems to work alright. I wouldn't really recommend you doing such a huge water change again, especially since you're cycling - it gets rid of any good bacteria you were growing. If your neons are still healthy - they're the ones I would recommend removing - see if you can give them back to the petstore. Your barbs probably can't be returned since they have ich, but they're a little hardier than neons and have a better chance of surviving the cycle. If the neons are gone, you can treat a full dosage of meds in your tank and not have to worry about harming sensitive fish. Your neons may have ich now anyway, and just not show it . Good luck.

 

[bookseller]

How does one fine the "happy medium" between high enought ammonia to trigger the "cycle" and yet not high enough to kill the fish? I'm sure a "rule" would depend on the fish involved?

In other words... in reference to Aquarium Pharmaceuticals ammonia test showing ammonia levels of zero to 8.0 what level would you try to "maintain" for the start of the cycle?

I've seen lots of posts and info on cycling in general and they always seem to be saying "high ammonia to get cycle started but not high enouth to kill fish." How do you "find" this "correct" level?

 

[juliethegr8t]

Ya know, it really does depend on your fish - it's hard to say unfortunately, since it's different for everyone. Really it's just the higher the ammonia the harder it is on your fish. When I started to cycle my tank (I'm still in process - though past the ammonia and now into nitrites), the ammonia never got very high, though it definitely rose for a short period. Keep a very close eye on your fish if the ammonia levels are high (since ideally you want none), and if they're breathing heavily or acting otherwise sick, do a 20-25% water change. You can also add something to your tank if your ammonia gets too high (you decide if it's too high because of your fish behavior) - something like Ammo-Lock. It converts the ammonia to a non-toxic form, though it will still show up on your tests. To answer your question about how high it needs to be to start the cycle - any ammonia will start your cycle! The bacteria that convert this to nitrites will begin to grow as soon as any ammonia is present, so for now, be patient and watchful. Hope this helps!

 

[bookseller]

Thanks for the response. Being new I'm swamped with conflicted information. I read some things that say to vacuum the bottom to keep bottom clean and that's "important". Then I read a post on a board that says most newbie tanks are too clean and that's bad. Once guy says he never changes his filter unless it's completely clogged then I read somewhere else tht you should change filter frequently to keep tank clean. Etc, etc, etc, ... guess it's just live and learn... try it and see what happens.... learn thru experience...

Anyway.. thanks for the info...

 

[juliethegr8t]

I totally know what you mean - I did a ton of research before I started, and there is SO much conflicting information out there. What I did was find out all I could about the actual technical stuff and then go with whatever made the most sense according to that. For example, I heard the same conflicting info about cleaning your tank when it's cycling. I did research and discovered that much of the bacteria you need lives in your gravel bed. So in my opinion, if you deep clean this gravel during the cycle, you're removing stuff you need! Most people will probably agree that many new people overclean their tanks and prolong the cycle (not necessarily by a lot, but any longer than necessary isn't good for your fish). I just skim the top layer of my gravel during cycling, and don't always gravel clean when I'm doing a water change. I'm still learning, but I'll give you any info that I have come up with if you want to know my opinion. You'll do great, every experience is a good one, because you learn!

 

[bookseller]

Well, my Tiger Barbs both went to fishie heaven last night Strange, they both looked fine when I when to bed. The one had been under heavy stress.. the other never showed signs of problems....

Guess I'll go to PetSmart after church this morning and ask for their recommendation on a couple "hearty" fish for cycling...

I only have two neon tetras left who seem to be doing fine.. (but the so were the barbs!)

 

[smb]

Well, my Tiger Barbs both went to fishie heaven last night   Strange, they both looked fine when I when to bed. The one had been under heavy stress.. the other never showed signs of problems....

Guess I'll go to PetSmart after church this morning and ask for their recommendation on a couple "hearty" fish for cycling...

I only have two neon tetras left who seem to be doing fine.. (but the so were the barbs!)

Try a couple zebra danios or you could go with a fishless cycling.

Fishless-1.


Fishless-2.

 

[bookseller]

a couple zebra danios

That's exactly what PetSmart sold me. They also gave me a handful of gravel to help my cycle start.

 

[gadazobe]

How about trying a fishless cycle the next time - it's not as difficult as it seems and no fish get hurt in the process. I know it's difficult to look at an empty tank, but in the long run, it's much better.

 

[wetwetwet]

I'm with Gad

Whats the rush?

Generally it doesn't take much/any longer and your not stuck with your 'hardy' fish that you otherwise might not have been keeping.

Part of the fun is setting up the tank - -you can find out what parameters your water is and research further the fish you want to keep and introduce them into a healthy stable watery environment.....

Also while your waiting you can experiment with the aquascaping of the tank and the plants you may want to keep....


jmho