New Uncycled Guppy And Neon Tetra Tank

[neoyyf]

Hi Everyone, I am not really new here since I have been reading posts for over a year but I am quite shy so didnt really introduce myself straight away. I apologise for this and hope this is in the right category since it is a new setup.

What I am about to tell you will anger many but it has been done now and I cannot reverse it. Obviously due to my inexperience and ruthless actions, many fish have died on me but I hope you can all keep an open mind and enlighten me or elliviate some of my problems.

My tank with the problems is 4ft long and I am filling it to about 120L (30 UK gallons) with dechlorinated water. The 120L is marked off on my tank so that I keep it the same. I am using 2 double sponge filters powered by air by a powerful air pump (output of 7.3L/min). It also has a heater and I am keeping water temp at 20 degrees celcius. I have an API Master test kit which I am using to test water parameters. This tank has substrate of play sand from Argos (washed thoroughly) and has not affected water parameters.

I have another 12L tank with lots of Java Moss which did not have a filter but I only had red ramshorn snails. It now has a filter setup same time as the large tank and now I keep my guppy fry in it. It doesnt have a heater or light and I keep it near a window for natural lighting. The side facing the window is completely covered with aquarium background paper so the water does not heat up significantly in direct sunlight. It has no substrate but I keep a bag of crushed coral and limestone in nylon tights to keep my snails shells hard. I have had no fish deaths (apart from the occasional snail but they breed like rabbits anyway) or any disease related problems in this tank even though the ammonia levels can reach 1ppm.

4 weeks ago I bought 70 fish, 50 of which were guppies and 20 were neon tetras. I also got 5 glass shrimp. I got them off a hobby breeder who was doing a really good deal because he had way too many which was why I was hasty and did not have the tank cycled at all. I thought I could do major water changes everyday (50%-70%) to keep the ammonia down as everyday it would be around 0.5ppm. After water change it would be 0.25ppm. I also only fed fish once every 2 days.

About less than a week later, I thought I should buy some ammonia remover and a live bacteria boost. I bought 2 bottles of ammonia remover (100ml each), and 1 bottle of the bacteria (100ml), all Pets At Home brand with the orange caps. I immediately used the ammonia remover on the big tank and the results were amazing and had 0 ammonia readings but only for 24 hours. However I did have to dose 20ml each time so I quickly ran out of it. I used the live bacteria booster and finished the bottle.

Since those bottles are costly, I decided I should only dose once every two days and water change 30% every two days. On the second day of dosing, ammonia will creep up to 0.25ppm and water changes didnt really change this but the API doesn't show a smaller measurement.

After 3 weeks I completely ran out of the bottles and bought the Interpet Ammonia Remover for ponds. I did this because I could dose less and therefore save a little money. By the way, this brand doesnt work very well, and I end up having to dose what it says on the bottle and water change since it only takes away from 0.5ppm to 0.25ppm. At this time I also ran out of the water conditioner (Nutrafin) and bought a different brand (Hozelock) which is again meant for ponds. (It's getting very complicated now!)

This week I gave away a lot of my fish to family and friends because of the bioload. I now have about 20 guppies (not including babies) and 10 tetras. I have also swapped the glass shrimp for amano shrimp because the glass shrimp ate some of my tetras and guppes alive! I have maybe 30 snails in the large tank.

Daily readings are as follows before water change:
Ammonia 0.5ppm
Nitrite 0
Nitrate 5ppm
pH 7-8

On average I lose about 1 fish everyday due to the ammonia poisoning. Some days I dont have deaths, and other days I have 4-5. I know this because their fins clamp up and they go paralysed. Sometimes they will have bleeding around their mouths or the top of their heads and yesterday I had one who had one eye bleeding. I check the gills of all dead ones and they are always a pale pink. Guppies are supposed to be hardy and since removing the glass shrimp (a week after i got them), I have not seen one neon tetra die at all even though I thought they were less hardy.

However, this week I got really strange deaths in some of my guppies. I would find very thin guppies with like sunken in tummies so they look bent. I put food in their faces and they wont eat it. They lose colour a few hours before death and either stay near the top or rest at the bottom. I have tried to google this and the only thing I can come up with is parasites but they do not poop white strands and it has only started happening this week.

Today I thought I should go to my LFS and maybe buy a parasite medicine. Was also hoping the guy would give me some old media to help me out but since it isnt near I decided to ring them up. I tell him about my situation and was shocked to hear that in his opinion, that I was doing everything wrong. He tells me the following:

1. The fish are going thin and dying because I am not feeding daily. I should feed loads and leave bits at the bottom of the tank for them to eat later. (I don't strictly feed once every 2 days, but I do only let them feed for 2 minutes which is unsually until one or 2 pieces of flakes fall to the bottom. I also feed microworms, spirulina powder and sometimes a couple sinking algae pellets for them to play and peck at. I have fed a little more since seeing these thin guppies but they wont eat anyway?!)
2. 30% water changes is crazy because by 3 days I would have done a complete water change. I should only do 20% water changes weekly and clean the filter once a month, this is what he has done for all his new tanks, regardless of water parameters. If ammonia is high, dose with ammonia remover. He tells me that I am actually removing all the friendly bacteria in the water through the large water changes (I have read many posts advising daily water changes if the ammonia or nitrite is high. I also read that the friendly bacteria live in the filter, substrate, decorations, and tank walls...not in the water.
3. He doesnt have any old media to give me but he did try to sell me Nutrafin SafeCycle and also a call out service to check the tank and set it all up again but he wouldnt tell me what he would do or how much he would charge. (Really odd and I refused anyway. I wouldnt try safecycle anyway but may perhaps try Tetra Startcycle since I have heard amazing things about it but its going to cost me £20 a bottle, ugh).

Question time!

1. Why are some of my guppies going thin, refusing to eat and dying?
1a. Is it wrong to feed them every other day?
2. Why do I still have ammonia at unchanged levels but no nitrites? I have had no nitrites for 2 weeks!!
3. Is it wrong for me to do 30% water changes daily or every other day if I have dosed ammonia remover?
4. Why does the fry not die in my small tank even though I dont dose ammonia remover in it or do so many water changes? (I have just thought that maybe it is to do with the temperature...)
5. Is it wrong to use treatments meant for ponds to use in a tank? If so, why is this?


I forgot to add that I read that you can dose salt to stressed fish. I decided to dose 1 tablespoon for every 5 gallons with rock salt (with no other ingredients) overnight once in a while (probably once or twice a week). The next day I would change the water anyway and not replace the salt, and it doesnt seem to have any affects at all. I have not done it in the past few days. I leave my 50w flourescent light on for about 10-12 hours a day and it isnt very bright. I did have 3 large brown cattapa indian almond leaves in the tank and the water is always light brown due to tannins but decided to remove this yesterday so that the light can pentrate the water more easily. My added them because my snails eat the leaves slowly but thinking about it now, perhaps it was decaying and adding to ammonia? Well it's out now.

 

[librarygirl]

Woah. Ok first stop using the chemicals. The bacteria booster probably won't help. The ammonia remover is a waste of money. Nothing can help more than massive frequent water changes. WIth ammonia at 5, it's no wonder the fish are dying and getting sick. If you want to keep all of those fish in uncycled tanks, you're going to have to do the work to keep them alive and well. That means MASSIVE water changes with a good dechlorinator like Prime. Test the water 2x per day; any time ammonia or nitrite are over .25 or/and nitrate over 20, do a water change. The test will let you know how much to do; if ammonia is 1, a 50% pwc will get it down to .5 which is still borderline high, so another 50% water change will get it down to .25. Don't be afraid to do large 80% water changes and more than one per day if needed. I do not agree with the LFS who said to do water changes every week in a cyclng tank, that's ridiculous. Your fish are clearly suffering and it isn't fair. I'd also do water changes in the fry tank; not sure why the 5 of ammonia isn't affecting them b/c it should; again just b/c they aren't dying doesn't mean they aren't suffering.

I wouldn't feed so much either as the LFS says. Uneated food is just going to add to your ammonia problems.

So, the short answer is Water changes and plenty of them for a while until the tanks cycle. If that's a hassle for you, please return the fish. Clamped fins and red gills, etc are signs they are suffering and in pain and it isn't fair to them.

 

[neoyyf]

Oh I am so sorry everyone! It is actually 0.5ppm for ammonia, forgot the figure on the chart, sorry! Will try to edit this now. Thank you for your kind words librarygirl, as I said before, I have rehomed a lot of my fish and am already 4 weeks into it, so hopefully i can stick it out another 2 weeks? I will continue with my water changes and do bigger ones without worry. Going to do another water change, 50% this time. If other members have anything to add, I would be most grateful!

 

[KittyKat]

1. Why are some of my guppies going thin, refusing to eat and dying?

Ammonia.

1a. Is it wrong to feed them every other day?

Food -> ammonia. Don't feed for at least a week. The more you feed, the more ammonia there will be, the less the fish will eat.

2. Why do I still have ammonia at unchanged levels but no nitrites? I have had no nitrites for 2 weeks!!

Because the fish are constantly producing ammonia. It often takes 7-10 days for nitrites to appear, sometimes a few weeks. Also, it is possible that there is enough bacteria for the nitrite->nitrate conversion to keep up with the ammonia->nitrite.

3. Is it wrong for me to do 30% water changes daily or every other day if I have dosed ammonia remover?

You should be doing at least daily 90% water changed using a dechlorinator which deals with ammonia. If you do not, your fish will almost certainly die and then you would have wasted your money anyway. Not doing daily water changes and not using a dechlorinator which deals with ammonia is false economy and is killing your fish. Suitable dechlorinators include Prime and Stress Coat.

4. Why does the fry not die in my small tank even though I dont dose ammonia remover in it or do so many water changes? (I have just thought that maybe it is to do with the temperature...)

There are many factors which affect ammonia toxicity. What are the readings in the fry tank? What is the pH? Also, fry do not produce as much ammonia as 70 adult fish.

5. Is it wrong to use treatments meant for ponds to use in a tank? If so, why is this?

As long as you use correct dosage, this is usually fine.

I forgot to add that I read that you can dose salt to stressed fish. I decided to dose 1 tablespoon for every 5 gallons with rock salt (with no other ingredients) overnight once in a while (probably once or twice a week). The next day I would change the water anyway and not replace the salt, and it doesnt seem to have any affects at all. I have not done it in the past few days. I leave my 50w flourescent light on for about 10-12 hours a day and it isnt very bright. I did have 3 large brown cattapa indian almond leaves in the tank and the water is always light brown due to tannins but decided to remove this yesterday so that the light can pentrate the water more easily. My added them because my snails eat the leaves slowly but thinking about it now, perhaps it was decaying and adding to ammonia? Well it's out now.

Neons do not tolerate salt very well, being soft water fish. Also, (mineral) rock salt is no good for any fish, rock sea salt is ok, but expensive compared to aquarium salt.

Put the light on a timer and the IAL won't have a negative affect, although add to the ammonia.

Your current aim is to get the ammonia as close to 0 ppm as possible. Once you start reading 0 ppm, start feeding food, slowly increasing the amount.

The bacteria booster probably won't help.

+1

The ammonia remover is a waste of money.

If it is something which converts ammonia into the less toxic ammonium it is a good temporary solution, but is NOT a substitute for water changes. For example, Do water change in the morning, dose with this after the water change so ammonia doesn't harm the fish as much while you're at work, do water change again after work, dose again so the ammonia doesn't harm the fish overnight, etc.

Today I thought I should go to my LFS and maybe buy a parasite medicine. Was also hoping the guy would give me some old media to help me out but since it isnt near I decided to ring them up. I tell him about my situation and was shocked to hear that in his opinion, that I was doing everything wrong.

This guy is after you money, most of that advice would help it from your wallet into his pocket and get your fish killed in the process.

Also, I am not sure if two double sponge filters are capable of supporting 70 2" fish.

 

[KittyKat]

1. The fish are going thin and dying because I am not feeding daily. I should feed loads and leave bits at the bottom of the tank for them to eat later. (I don't strictly feed once every 2 days, but I do only let them feed for 2 minutes which is unsually until one or 2 pieces of flakes fall to the bottom. I also feed microworms, spirulina powder and sometimes a couple sinking algae pellets for them to play and peck at. I have fed a little more since seeing these thin guppies but they wont eat anyway?!)

This is complete ##152###. If you feed that much, the fish will die of overfeeding because they have no response, like humans do, to tell them when they're full. For a cycled aquarium, as much as can be completely finished in 30 seconds, twice per day is the norm. Most healthy tropical fish will not be affected if they're not fed for two weeks.

2. 30% water changes is crazy because by 3 days I would have done a complete water change. I should only do 20% water changes weekly and clean the filter once a month, this is what he has done for all his new tanks, regardless of water parameters. If ammonia is high, dose with ammonia remover. He tells me that I am actually removing all the friendly bacteria in the water through the large water changes (I have read many posts advising daily water changes if the ammonia or nitrite is high. I also read that the friendly bacteria live in the filter, substrate, decorations, and tank walls...not in the water.

He also can't count. 30% daily water changes, not taking into account that fish are constantly producing ammonia, will reduce ammonia from 100% to 35% or of original. Because fish are constantly producing ammonia, in practice, 3*30% water over three days changes will reduce ammonia maybe from 100% to about 60-70% at the point right after the last one. It would be considerably more effective to do a single 90% water change than 3*30%.
He also doesn't know that the vast majority (maybe 99.99%) of bacteria live inside the filter sponges, almost none are in the water itself.

3. He doesnt have any old media to give me but he did try to sell me Nutrafin SafeCycle and also a call out service to check the tank and set it all up again but he wouldnt tell me what he would do or how much he would charge. (Really odd and I refused anyway. I wouldnt try safecycle anyway but may perhaps try Tetra Startcycle since I have heard amazing things about it but its going to cost me £20 a bottle, ugh).

It probably won't do anything more than convert ammonia to ammonium, a waste of your money most likely and he can't do any magic to suddenly make your filter cycled. Find a new LFS.

Is this guy really being serious?

No offence neoyyf, but if you've been reading this forum for a year, how did you mess up so badly and don't question what this guy told you? Did you not see 1000s of posts on here about cycling?

 

[librarygirl]

Oh I am so sorry everyone! It is actually 0.5ppm for ammonia, forgot the figure on the chart, sorry! Will try to edit this now. Thank you for your kind words librarygirl, as I said before, I have rehomed a lot of my fish and am already 4 weeks into it, so hopefully i can stick it out another 2 weeks? I will continue with my water changes and do bigger ones without worry. Going to do another water change, 50% this time. If other members have anything to add, I would be most grateful!

Oh whew! lol I was going to say 5 of ammonia they should all be dead. Keep up with the water changes and use Prime if you can, it'll help detoxify inbetween pwc (but don't use as a replacement for pwc). Hopefully another 2-3 weeks and the cycle will be sorted out. Good luck!

 

[KittyKat]

Oh I am so sorry everyone! It is actually 0.5ppm for ammonia, forgot the figure on the chart, sorry! Will try to edit this now. Thank you for your kind words librarygirl, as I said before, I have rehomed a lot of my fish and am already 4 weeks into it, so hopefully i can stick it out another 2 weeks? I will continue with my water changes and do bigger ones without worry. Going to do another water change, 50% this time. If other members have anything to add, I would be most grateful!

Oh whew! lol I was going to say 5 of ammonia they should all be dead. Keep up with the water changes and use Prime if you can, it'll help detoxify inbetween pwc (but don't use as a replacement for pwc). Hopefully another 2-3 weeks and the cycle will be sorted out. Good luck!

+1, but I have a feeling it will be more like 4-6 weeks. You will get fish dying from the effects of ammonia though

 

[neoyyf]

Wow! I am overwhelmed by the responses! Thank you kittykat and librarygirl for your replies! It is nice to see women in this hobby as until recently it has mainly been a man's thing. I have since done a 90% water change 3 hours ago as advised (took ages as my bucket to change water only holds 20L!) and the ammonia reading is now 0.25ppm. Going to add a little ammonia remover again. My arms ache now, lol.

With regards to your question librarygirl, no offence taken, you have every right to tell me off. It's just that the LFS man threw me off by telling me everything that I knew was wrong so I kind of panicked. I tried to tell him what I knew from this forum but he just dismissed it and told me that's why my tank is having problems and his tanks do not. How could I question an expert on this?! That's why I panicked. I have actually never been to that fish shop. It is 4 miles away from me and the next one is 10 miles. I dont drive and transport links are not the best where I live so I rely heavily on local shops and the internet.

This will sound stupid but I actually started cycling the large tank around February and did a fishless cycle. Everything was going well and I achieved the ammonia 0 and nitrite 0 but I ended up not being able to afford to buy the fish that I wanted (Cherry Shrimp) and I wasnt able to buy a stand so I shut it down after 2 months running. Was a total waste. I have had the small tank running since last year though and originally did have a filter but my financial situation was really bad then so I turned it off. I only had red ramshorns and they seemed ok with weekly water changes, probably because they have little bioload.

Anyway, the reason for me not having money at the time (and this is a little off tangent) was because I had a stupid "friend" whom I have known for 10 years and promised a lot of things before moving in to share the rent but actually it turned out she was penniless (even though she has many designer clothes, bags and shoes, a 42" plasma screen tv, a beautiful convertible car etc) and I ended up paying everything for her out of pity (I can't turn down someone who tells me they are hungry whilst I am eating and not share). I was completely broke for the first time in my life, and actually could not afford to feed myself, but I didnt complain except kick her out the house which she did after 3 months in July. I am now back on my feet and want to keep fish which I enjoyed so much as a child as a sort of reward. Back then I would change all the water for my guppies in a 2ft tank (with no dechlorinator!) and used soap to wash the filter!! They lived quite long but my parents took them away from me because I got too obsessed with the water changes lol! Thinking about it makes me smile!

So you can see why I was so hasty when I found this deal for these fish. I knew some would die but I never imagined it would be so much more difficult to maintain a 4ft tank, initially anyway. I can do a 50% water change in my 12L tank in 10 mins. The 4ft tank takes 45mins! I never did have much common sense but I have kept to daily water changes and often twice daily. I still did not anticipate them dying.

I just recounted the fish and actually only have 10 adult guppies and 8 neon tetras, I have about 10 baby guppies in the large tank. 15 guppies and 6 neon tetras were rehomed, the rest died due to ammonia poisoning and about 10 due to physical accidents (another story!) or being eaten by those glass shrimp.

Oh look at me babbling on! One last question, if the thin guppies are dying directly because of the ammonia poisoning, how come the other ones with clamped fins etc are fat and look healthy? These thin ones do not have clamped fins and swim normally, also this has only happened this week and they don't die straight away, taking about 3 days. I do hope it is the ammonia causing them not to eat because I really don't need a disease breakout now!

Thanks again for the replies, it has been very informative and helpful!

 

[Rickzayne]

maybe some are pregnant?

also I don't think your filter isn't up to par, since its only turning over 438 lph, even more so if you had 70 fish in there at once!

Also your temp is meant to be 25C

The easiest way would be to buy ALOT of plants, Amazon swords are quite hardy and alot of shop stock them, and this should help keep ammonia levels down as well as you doing 50% water changes every day.

 

[willowstwin]

First off, I completely sympathise with people being asses... My 2 "best friends" graduated a year before me, and instead of doing as I wanted, a 1 bed flat (for me) and a 2 bed flat (for them) in the same building, they prmised me they'd be there until the following summer when I graduated... so I fell for it, went for a fancier apartment (because we could afford it) and yet I was left, for 5 months, to pay rent and bills alone, trying to finish uni and without a job, penniless and starving - I lost my pet rats because I couldn't afford the vet bill when they got tumors (£5 for putting to sleep was cheaper than £30+ for the removal).

When I came home, I wanted a pet, but I couldnt face having another rat, so I decided on fish. Unfortuately, I bought a tank I thought was big enough, and THEN looked into fish - I couldn't have the ones I wanted, nor in the number I wanted in such a small tank.

It's good that you used to be "obsessed" with water changes, it means youre willing to put in the effort this time. I can't help you with what is wrong with your fish, but I will say you need a better filter. Put your money into things you actually need, and you'll save money in the long run.

As for your lfs confusing you and making you panic, I also know that feeling. You look around and you're like "well, there are all these tanks of healthy fish and he's been keeping fish for x amount of years"... and you come out with a bag full of products and a load of fish and yet things still keep going wrong. I was sold a water clearing product to sort out a realy bad bacterial bloom I had. All it did was turn my water orange and clog up my filter

Keep on with the water changes and fingers crossed things will be ok!

 

[willowstwin]

*edit* it posted twice, sorry

 

[librarygirl]

My apologies; I didn't mean to come off well, er, mean. Initially I thought I was reading 5 ammonia and then reading about the red gills, etc., upset me some. Again I apologize, and no offense meant.

Good for doing the large water change. The fish will thank you. I agree you need better filtration.

Also don't know if you have one but if you can get an Aqueon Water changer (smaller version of the Python) it will help with water changes immensely. I recently purchased one and no more lugging buckets back and forth and water changes take less than h alf the time. Just add dechlorinator to the tank (enough for the whole tank, not just the amount you are replacing) and then refill with the Aqueon from the tap.

Good luck.

Edit: ALso what dechlorinator do you use? If you can find Prime, it will 1) last longer as it's more concentrated and 2) it helps to detoxify ammonia for 48 hours. Don't use it in place of water changes, but it will help keep the fish safer in between changes.

 

[Miles_hot]

First off never listen to anything that guy in the fish shop says on any matter - even if he tells you it's raining outside go and check! Second stop with all the chemicals other than Prime (or similar). Third - sort out a syphon for your tank, water changes shouldn't be that hard (at least to get the water out!).

It seems like you need to be doing big water changes every day at the moment. Even 0.25 ammonia is a little high, especially for fish which have suffered from Ammonia toxicity as much your depleted population have. It seems like you'll loose some other fish from the effects of the ammonia they've previously been exposed to but that can't be helped. The trick is to keep as many alive as possible.

Do you have the money for a filter off ebay? Do any of the people who took in some of the other fish have mature media they can give you (hopefully they're not all in uncycled tanks being subjected to a similar regime of chemicals etc!) - that will really help you along?

Good luck to you and your fish.

Miles

 

[KittyKat]

It is nice to see women in this hobby as until recently it has mainly been a man's thing. I have since done a 90% water change 3 hours ago as advised (took ages as my bucket to change water only holds 20L!) and the ammonia reading is now 0.25ppm. Going to add a little ammonia remover again. My arms ache now, lol.

Also don't know if you have one but if you can get an Aqueon Water changer (smaller version of the Python) it will help with water changes immensely. I recently purchased one and no more lugging buckets back and forth and water changes take less than h alf the time. Just add dechlorinator to the tank (enough for the whole tank, not just the amount you are replacing) and then refill with the Aqueon from the tap.

You can actually hurt your back quite easily, lugging around that much water, so please do be careful with yourself and invest in some hoses. I haven't looked at the Aqueon, but you *must* be careful to not expose the filter to chlorine and chloramine because that will kill the bacteria. I recently found that doing a 5-10% top up with chloraminated water stalled a cycling filter by 2-3 days (in which the filter processed no ammonia at all). If you start using hoses, my advice is to place the sponge filters or just the sponges from them in a bucket of tank water while you do a water change and replace them after you are finished. For the water change itself, drain the water, then add enough dechlorinator to treat *all* the water in the tank, new and old, and after the tank is full, swirl the water about a little bit, then add the filters back after a couple of minutes. Try to not leave the filters out of the water as the bacteria will die if the filters dry out.

Please don't add "a little ammonia remover", add a double dose instead.

I tried to tell him what I knew from this forum but he just dismissed it and told me that's why my tank is having problems and his tanks do not.

What about the fact that his tanks have been running for years and yours is brand new? It is quite difficult to kill an established filter, even through stupidity.

I have had the small tank running since last year though and originally did have a filter but my financial situation was really bad then so I turned it off. I only had red ramshorns and they seemed ok with weekly water changes, probably because they have little bioload.

Yes, snails are low bioload, but if you get into this situation with fish (there are a few exceptions where it is possible to run unfiltered tanks, but they probably won't apply to you), do find the fish a new home instead of leaving things to chance.

I am now back on my feet and want to keep fish which I enjoyed so much as a child as a sort of reward. Back then I would change all the water for my guppies in a 2ft tank (with no dechlorinator!) and used soap to wash the filter!! They lived quite long but my parents took them away from me because I got too obsessed with the water changes lol! Thinking about it makes me smile!

That's very cute, but don't think that you can get away with that now that you know better

So you can see why I was so hasty when I found this deal for these fish. I knew some would die but I never imagined it would be so much more difficult to maintain a 4ft tank, initially anyway. I can do a 50% water change in my 12L tank in 10 mins. The 4ft tank takes 45mins! I never did have much common sense but I have kept to daily water changes and often twice daily. I still did not anticipate them dying.

You can't go into fishkeeping with the knowledge that you will be killing animals. If you expect *any* of your fish to die, then this is probably not the right hobby for you and you should look into something that doesn't involve live animals.

It is very difficult to not impulse buy, but that's something you will have to learn how to do. It's part of being a responsible fishkeeper.

Also, ammonia poisoning does not work on a "affect this fish and it will die, not affect that other fish and it will survive" basis, it's more like "affect all fish and some will be lucky enough to survive, others will not". Even the fish which have survived will have health problems in the future and will have a shorter life span than they should have done.

I just recounted the fish and actually only have 10 adult guppies and 8 neon tetras, I have about 10 baby guppies in the large tank. 15 guppies and 6 neon tetras were rehomed, the rest died due to ammonia poisoning and about 10 due to physical accidents (another story!) or being eaten by those glass shrimp.

With that number of fish, it is possible to successfully fish-less cycle, but it will still require a lot of water changes on your part. Glass shrimp do not kill live adult fish, but will eat dead ones.

One last question, if the thin guppies are dying directly because of the ammonia poisoning, how come the other ones with clamped fins etc are fat and look healthy? These thin ones do not have clamped fins and swim normally, also this has only happened this week and they don't die straight away, taking about 3 days. I do hope it is the ammonia causing them not to eat because I really don't need a disease breakout now!

It could be a disease, but it's most likely ammonia. Clamped fins are a sign of stress, normally fish will not clamp fins unless things are pretty bad. Just to be sure, that does the poo of the thin ones look like? Do they have anything hanging out of their arses? Are the fat ones female and the thin ones male?

At the end of the day, some fish so just have better immune systems than than others.

also I don't think your filter isn't up to par, since its only turning over 438 lph, even more so if you had 70 fish in there at once!

The turnover is fine, it's the surface area of the media which is low.

Also your temp is meant to be 25C

20 C is fine for neons and guppies, guppies do best at anything around 18-25 C and neons at 20-26 C.

The easiest way would be to buy ALOT of plants, Amazon swords are quite hardy and alot of shop stock them, and this should help keep ammonia levels down as well as you doing 50% water changes every day.

Plants are a good idea, unless they die and produce ammonia. Stem plants (not rosette) would be best at using up ammonium and nitrate. The tank probably couldn't support more than 1-2 Amazon swords.

It's good that you used to be "obsessed" with water changes, it means youre willing to put in the effort this time. I can't help you with what is wrong with your fish, but I will say you need a better filter. Put your money into things you actually need, and you'll save money in the long run.

For the fish the OP currently had, the filter is fine, but I also recommend a better one, especially if they want more fish later on. neoyyf, if you ever get a new filter, make sure you find out how to upgrade filters properly without losing your bacterial colony.

Edit: ALso what dechlorinator do you use? If you can find Prime, it will 1) last longer as it's more concentrated and 2) it helps to detoxify ammonia for 48 hours. Don't use it in place of water changes, but it will help keep the fish safer in between changes.

+1, please do change to one which deals with ammonia, Stress Coat is another one which will, although your "ammonia remover" will probably do exactly the same thing, so it's worth continuing to use it.

Second stop with all the chemicals other than Prime (or similar).

The "ammonia remover" probably only converts ammonia to ammonium, which is exactly what Prime does, so there's no point in not using it. +1 that the "bacteria in a bottle" won't work, but there probably will be less harm than good from dumping the bottle the OP bought into the tank, although it's not worth spending money on more.

neoyyf what is your tap water ammonia reading after you dechloriante?

 

[moochy13]

i would turn the temp up a bit more within the ranges given above, im pretty sure a higher temp will help the cycle move a bit quicker.