New to quarantining ... 19L/5g before 125L/33g tank? Medications to keep in stock, etc?

[nobo]

Hi,

Whist I've kept a pond for c. 30 years, and was gifted a small (Fluvial Spec 19L/5g) tropical aquarium maybe 8 months ago, I'd not come across quarantining before.

I have set up, cycled and planted a Juwel Rio 125. I have moved across my glowlight tetras* from the 19L - which has been running for a few years I think; with plants, rocks and subtrate) - leaving behind 5 amano shrimp since plants in the 125 aren't shrimp safe (and I gather it may take as much as 60 days before they are).

I'm planning to eventually add more glowlight tetras, a handful of assassin snails (to address the existing pond snail population in the 125), 3 pearl gourami, 6-7 corys, maybe a bristlenose plec, maybe some loaches and shrimp (/ultimately transfer the amaons) to the 125. My plan was to add 1-3 of these (depending on size) every, say, 2 or more weeks.

Some further plants apart, I'm planning on getting everything from the LFS (reputable, I gather - Aquatic Design Centre in Balham).

However, I'd not factored in quarantine...

I don't have (and don't have space or time for) any more tanks. So that leaves the 19L. My concern is that the setup of the small tank is poor for quarantine: probably too small, particularly for the gourami and plec; plants, rocks, gravel for etc. Plus the presence of shrimps makes medication difficult, if needed (I guess if it came to it, I'd have to risk transferring the shrimp to the 125 and take their chances with any residual insecticide).

At this stage, am I simply better off adding new fish to the big tank (since there are only 7 glowlight tetras in there)? (Step one is get the swarm up to say 10 to 12, and add the assassin snails; probably corys next; then gourami). In time, once the shrimp can be moved over, and once there are more fish in the 125 and so more occupants to be at risk, I could make the 19 into a dedicated quarantine space. I'd prefer not too - it's doing nicely! But I guess that seems the sensible thing...? To that end, I'd gather I'd need to strip out the plants, rocks and substrate... Seems a shame!

Am I right in thinking a quarantine tank needs to be disinfected between uses? Or left for a number of weeks between uses?

Do plants, snails and shrimp need quarantining?

Or since everything's coming from the same shop, on a fairly regularly basis, does that mean my ecosystem in the 125 would gradually start being more accommodating/match that of the LFS?

I'm keen of course to do what's right for the fish, but am also worried that quarantining in the 19L may do more damage than good - to the shrimp, and to the quarantined fish, given the lack of space, etc.

I'm also wondering about whether I should have a stock of medication on hand (if so, which? API General Cure? An ich treatment? Others?), and whether it's advisable to treat fish in quarantine as a matter of course, or only if you see symptoms.

I've done some reading up already, but (as always) there's a lot of conflicting advice. I'll keep reading up, but in the meantime, any steers much appreciated!


[*Unfortunately I lost 2 glowlights in the process. Ammonia, nitrate and nitrite all unmeasurable and other parameters stable, so I think it may have been decaying plant matter being the issue... Or something else. I've done a few largish water changes and will keep that up.]

 

[Byron]

You raise a number of issues, so I will simply respond generally on quarantining new fish. If any specific issue is not covered, just ask.

Quarantining all new fish is a wise practice. For more than 25 years I never quarantined new fish, and I may have been lucky. About 8 years ago I acquired some new fish, and within a week half of them were dead and the fish in the tank began dying one by one, usually one or two each day. I learned my lesson.

The Quarantine tank is not a hospital tank, though if the newly acquired fish do show symptoms it may become one. But the QT is best if it is as close to an established permanent tank as it is possible to have. For the past eight years I have used a 20g tank (a 10g should suffice) that runs permanently; it has a shallow layer of sand, a couple chunks of wood, and plants, primarily moss on the wood and a thick layer of floating plants. The benefit of this is that the fish are going into an established tank which means it is significantly less stress than any sort of bare container. Fish suffer severe stress from the capture, transport, store tank, netting and bagging, transport home...then they are dumped into another less than acceptable/ideal tank. It is no wonder they develop ich, or worse. You cannot do anything about what the fish goes through before you acquire them, but you can make it better after that.

Never medicate fish unless there is a clear sign of a specific issue that requires treatment. Stress is the direct cause of 95% of all aquarium fish disease, and adding any medication/chemical/treatment will cause additional stress to any fish in most cases. A clean environment (good water suited to the species, floating plants and decor in the tank) is the only necessary "treatment" for new fish. If something develops while in this temporary QT, and it is something that needs treatment, then deal with it. Fish have considerable resilience and a good immune system if it is not hampered by stress.

Any of the so-called general cures/preventives cause more harm than good, and most won't prevent anything or cure anything. It is like being sick and taking aspirin when the sickness is cancer.

A 19 liter (5 gallon) tank can serve as a QT. Chances are the fish you are getting will be small, and they will be able to manage for a few weeks in a smaller tank provided the environment is to their liking.

With a shoaling species, always acquire the entire group you intend at one time, and introduce them to the display tank together at the same time. Example, if you want say another five glowlights (you have 7, and want 12 total), acquire the five new ones together. This is far less stress than only three and then two or three later, and you will reduce the likelihood of disease further.

 

[nobo]

Thanks Bryon - as always, helpful, pragmatic and advice, no doubt based on much experience and wisdom. And provided remarkably quickly! You're a star!

Numbered for easy of reply:

1. I'm tempted to add, say, 5 glowlights to the main tank directly and the assassin snails too (along with new plants, including some floating ones) since there's not much in there at the moment to risk, then use the 19L as a quarantine (adding some floating plants there too).

2. For things like the gourami, I guess best to get all 3 at once in the quarantine?

3. Cores, my guess is 6-7 at once might be too much, so perhaps 3 and 3-4? (I'm thinking 3 or 4 bronze and 3 or 4 Sturbai, since they're best suited to my water).

4. As for quarantine period, I've heard anything from 1 to 6 weeks+, with most seemingly recommending 2-4 weeks. Any thoughts on what I should aim for?

5. I guess I'd also need to do more regular and/or bigger water changes on the QT tank. Say 50% per week? Or twice a week?

6. On the medications front (if needed), I guess best to buy to order since they have a shelf life and you can't know in advance what you'll need. Downside of that is there may be a delay whilst I get hold of them... But I guess there's something to be said for the art of compromise and what's possible/practicable...

7. Is there any sense in dosing with something like Tetra SafeStart when adding new fish (to either QT and/or main tank)? If so, which version (SafeStart Plus? Something else)? I was thinking (/hoping!) that having live plants would help with amonia etc uptake so that wouldn't be necessary...

 

[Retired Viking]

@Byron is spot on in his advice, I have glow light tetras in my 55 gallon tetra tank, I have 10 plus 2 fry. I added them in a group. My QT tank is a old 10 gallon which has plastic plants except for live floating plants. I have live plants in all my other tanks. When you introduce the fish to a new tank it is best to have the tank light off for awhile to reduce their stress. I do a 35-50% water change on all my tanks weekly. I buy my meds when I need them so they are hopefully fresh.

 

[nobo]

@Byron When you introduce the fish to a new tank it is best to have the tank light off for awhile to reduce their stress. I do a 35-50% water change on all my tanks weekly. I buy my meds when I need them so they are hopefully fresh.

Thanks - good tips, particularly on the lights. I'd forgotten that but do remember reading it! Must resist the temptation to watch the fish settle in with them on...! As always with this hobby, patience patience patience!

 

[Byron]

For things like the gourami, I guess best to get all 3 at once in the quarantine? Cores, my guess is 6-7 at once might be too much, so perhaps 3 and 3-4? (I'm thinking 3 or 4 bronze and 3 or 4 Sturbai, since they're best suited to my water).

Get all the fish of the shoaling species (like cories) at one time, always. With cories, cross-species is very different than it might be with shoaling species of barbs, tetras, or whatever. A cory is a cory, and the more there are the happier they will be, one species or two species or three species. No matter where they are, seven cories together will be less stressed than 2 or 3 cories, regardless of anything else.

Gourami are different as they are not a true shoaling species, those some are close. But here you have another factor, territoriality and aggressiveness. Species vary in these.

As for quarantine period, I've heard anything from 1 to 6 weeks+, with most seemingly recommending 2-4 weeks. Any thoughts on what I should aim for?

I vary this depending upon the fish species and where I got them. On the latter, if I know the store and have reliance on the fish (I happen to know where they come from), a couple weeks, say 3 or 4, is all I tend to do. If I have fish with special needs, like when I acquired my group of Spotteed Headstanders that can be very difficult to feed, I left them in the QT for two maybe three months. This meant I could give them more food and they would be more likely to find it on the substrate, and once they are used to and comfortable eating from sinking food disks and tablets, they are less likely to be hampered in the main tank with some competition.

I guess I'd also need to do more regular and/or bigger water changes on the QT tank. Say 50% per week? Or twice a week?

My maintenance on the QT is identical to the other tanks. Each gets a partial water change of 60-70% once each week, without fail. If the QT is considerably overstocked, then more frequent changes might be necessary.

On the medications front (if needed), I guess best to buy to order since they have a shelf life and you can't know in advance what you'll need. Downside of that is there may be a delay whilst I get hold of them... But I guess there's something to be said for the art of compromise and what's possible/practicable...

I only buy a medication if I have a need for it. Identifyting fish disease is complex. I'm fortunate that I have had very few disease issues in my 30 years. Ich is the most common problem for most of us, and that is easily solved by warmer water. Beyond that, it can be hit and miss. The time 8 yuears ago when I lost so many fish I had no idea what it was, and consulted a marine biologist onloine (someone I knew on another forum) and after answering a multitude of questions she suggested it was likely an internal protozoan and recommended metronidazole added to the food for 10-14 days. It worked. Now, how would I have known that on my own? And always keep in mind that any additive to the water is likely going to add stress, so if it is not exactly the one needed, things will be worse not better.