New To Forum, New To Fish, Help Needed!

[AshleyGracie]

Hi everyone,
I really need some advice/help.
Ok, here's how it all started. Been thinking for a long time "I'd like to have a fish tank" so the beggining of April I decided to get a tank. I bought a 55 gal tank start up kit. Came with filter, heater, lights and hood. I paid a fair amount for it and I stupidly thought that if I was spending that much money at the store theres no way they can steer me wrong. Well....... after some research (which I should have done BEFORE I got the tank ) I learned I have done EVERYTHING WRONG.

So after I bought the tank the guy at the store told me to cycle the tank for three days with this cycle stuff to get a bacteria growth started and then I'd be good to go. So I did it. Went back and started buying fish. He said to add 3 or 4 and wait a couple of days and then I could add 3 or 4 more. Well I now know this is all wrong.
He never mentioned anything about watching ammonia levels or anything like that. So over the last month I collected these fish:
3 Black Tetras
3 Lemon Tetras
1 Upside-down Catfish
1 Bumblebee Catfish
1 Some kind of Algae eater
1 Clown Loach (yes I know, after reading around the forum I already know whats going to be said about this. He told me he was fine in my tank and said nothing about the fact the need a group)

So after I found this place I went and got an ammonia test kit (nitrite and ph tests are on the way). The first test I done the ammonia was out of whack!!!! It was so high . So over the last couple of days I have been doing massive water changes and have the ammonia under .25. Will continue to do daily testings and changes.

So now I need advice! What am I going to do? I mentioned to the guy about taking fish back, he won't but I'm so attached now I don't even know if I'd be able to, I would fear they would just be sold to someone else who blindly walked into it just like I did and die! Luckily, I have not lost any fish thus far. And I'm trying my hardest to keep it that way.
But do you guys think my tank is too small for the loach? Should I get more? He seems really happy. He is very active, not at all shy, and really seems to like hanging out with the black tetras. They feed together, swim back and forth the tank together. But not really knowing fish I could totally be reading him wrong.

So any advice on anything you see I'm doing wrong or should be doing would be so appreciated!!

 

[FishFanatic04]

My first thought to you...I'm so sorry that this happened. SO sorry you have to go through it, and so sorry for the money you have spent with bad advice on top. I went through the same thing not too long ago. It is too easy to walk into a store and just believe what the salespeople say. I have seen a few people cut down for not researching enough, but that is silly. I hope you won't find that here, and certainly not from me.

Down to business: You are off to a great start. Keep doing major water changes. I know it's a lot of work, I did my accidental fish-in cycle on a large tank too. Just do it. Where did you buy the fish?? If it's a mom & pop place, they might hold your fish for you if you have a good talk with them, then you could fish-less cycle. If not, try to find a source for mature filter media....Ask your fish stores if they will give you some filter floss or sponge. I recieved some mature media from a Petco, and it helped a lot!!


Unless you plan to have a very large tank in the future, I would rehome the loach. He does need a school and your tank won't be big enough forever.

Your tetras are schooling fish and it's recommended to have a group of 6+. I discovered that having one large group instead of a few small groups give a really pretty, and natural dynamic to my tanks.

You are on the right track however, and found out BEFORE you were losing fish left and right. Stay positive

 

[blur411]

I'm pretty much in the same boat as you, except I bought a "used" package on craigslist and I've put 3X the amount back into it. I'm doing the water changes daily now, and I'm finally starting to get on the right track. The stores I've found really have no idea what they are saying, I honestly think some are meaning well.

I too am wondering about the loach, I REALLY wanted some loaches for my tank, and I want to know if I don't have many other fish if it is possible to keep some of those, eventually when I am fully cycled.

 

[AshleyGracie]

My first thought to you...I'm so sorry that this happened. SO sorry you have to go through it, and so sorry for the money you have spent with bad advice on top. I went through the same thing not too long ago. It is too easy to walk into a store and just believe what the salespeople say. I have seen a few people cut down for not researching enough, but that is silly. I hope you won't find that here, and certainly not from me.

Down to business: You are off to a great start. Keep doing major water changes. I know it's a lot of work, I did my accidental fish-in cycle on a large tank too. Just do it. Where did you buy the fish?? If it's a mom & pop place, they might hold your fish for you if you have a good talk with them, then you could fish-less cycle. If not, try to find a source for mature filter media....Ask your fish stores if they will give you some filter floss or sponge. I recieved some mature media from a Petco, and it helped a lot!!


Unless you plan to have a very large tank in the future, I would rehome the loach. He does need a school and your tank won't be big enough forever.

Your tetras are schooling fish and it's recommended to have a group of 6+. I discovered that having one large group instead of a few small groups give a really pretty, and natural dynamic to my tanks.

You are on the right track however, and found out BEFORE you were losing fish left and right. Stay positive

I already asked them if they could take the fish back and they said they couldn't. I will ask them for filter media today, but last time I was there they had a massive out brake of Ich so I don't know how safe it will be. They are the only fish shop around here. The closest one is about 5 hours away.

As for the Loach, I will try to rehome him. I know the pet shop won't take him back but I'll try to find someone with a proper set up willing to take him. If I can't find one for him, what do I do though? Should I get more? How long would I have before they out grew my tank? I'm willing to upgrade, but I'd prefer if I had about a year or so.

No problem for the tetras, once I get my tank cycled I will get 3 more of each.

Thanks for your reply!

 

[FishFanatic04]

Clown loaches grow really slowly, so if you plan to upgrade, you could certainly do it next year.

 

[AshleyGracie]

Ok, so went to the LFS and he said he didn't think it would be a good idea to take anything from his filter and put it in my filter. He said that wasn't necessary and he said I'm doing fine and was really impressed that I haven't lost any fish since I started .
I don't really know anyone else who has a fish tank so the filter media seems to be out of the question.

I have decided to keep the loach. And have my eye out for a second hand 100gal tank. In the mean time, while they are still small, should I get more and put them in my 55gal tank (after the cycle is complete)? How many is the minimum I should have?

Hopeing to have my nitrite testing kit soon but as of now with regular massive (about 75%) water changes the ammonia is coming back between 0 and .25 ppm. Should I get a water hardness test?

 

[FishFanatic04]

If you are 100% sure about upgrading in the future then I would at least have 6 of them. Don't add any more fish until after you cycle.

My lfs won't give mature media either. A lot of times, they the store owners and employees have been doing things for so many years, they won't accept new methods. "Can't teach an old dog new tricks" I try not to take everything they say to heart and just be gracious. In any hobby or profession, there will always be new techniques and methods. A lot of the little mom & pop's forget that.

You are doing great with the water changes, keep that up and you will be in good shape. Don't let the ammonia sit anywhere above .25 ppm.

 

[OldMan47]

Welcome to the forum AshleyGracie.
No new fish until that tank's filter gets cycled, not even if you lose some during the process.
Once you are fully cycled, you could possibly expand you loaches to 3 fish.

Quite honestly asking fish advice at a typical pet shop is like asking the guys in the auto parts store how to rebuild an engine. They may have some general idea but they really are not expert at all.

 

[AshleyGracie]

OldMad47,
Thanks for your reply. Don't worry, no other fish are getting in that tank until I get this mess fixed!
Yeah, you hit the nail on the head there with that reference to pet shops. I didn't think of it that way before but it's so true. So sad I learned my lesson the hard way.
Once my tank is cycled and stable I will get a couple of more clown loaches, but I still stand by upgrading to a 100gal tank within the next year. I have already started looking on local adds and will be watching them weekly.

I have another question for anyone who wants to take a stab. Right now I have pebble type gravel in my tank but want to change to sand as I eventually want to get live plants. How can I do this with fish in the tank? Do I take them out and take all the water out or is there a way to place the sand with water in the tank? Or can live plants live in pebble gravel?

Thanks again, I can't believe how senseless I was getting into this. I really should have know the difference. I own horses and have for the last 20 years and know you can't get a horse without first doing your research and have spent 1000's of hours researching them. I don't know why it didn't click in that head of mine that fish would need the same research. I swear I will be beating myself up for this for months.

 

[FishFanatic04]

You are being too hard on yourself. I researched before I bought my fish. I read three books back to front , asked a ton of questions at my fish stores, and then after 2 weeks, I bought my tank. I STILL ended up in a fish-in cycle. Turns out all of my research didn't include one shred of cycling without fish. I had no clue you could cycle a tank without fish in.

When I changed my tank to sand, I put all off my fish in a large rubbermaid with the filter running in it. Your plants can live in the gravel if you like it.

 

[AshleyGracie]

Just an update.
Been just over a month since I started my accidental fish in cycle. Doing 75% water changes everyday still. Ammonia still rising in between changes. Beginning to see tiny bits of nitrites show between changes. Still no nitrates.
Feels like this is never going to end But still no fish losses which is great! I absolutely love my fish and I think this is the best thing ever! Just wish I had of learned about the fishless cycle then it would have been even better.
Can wait to be cycled so I can add more clown loaches for my little guy to have buddies! Has to be my most favorite fish ever! Sad thing is, I don't know how I'm going to get any. We only have 1 lfs and they have 2 left and to be honest, theydo not look well and the owner said they are not getting anymore in until they have all sold. Poor things.
And I was also looking at their black tetras because I plan to get 3 more of those when cycled and one of them has bumps all over it's body. Almost looks like blisters. So I don't know about those either.
It's a very sad situation seeing so many fish suffering.
But hopefully my tank will eventually be cycled and that will be good news!

 

[OldMan47]

It sounds like you are beginning to cycle that filter Ashley. As you have discovered, a fish in cycle is a bit of a PITA but it sounds like you are doing fine. Even when it is fully cycled, your tank will be a bit too small for a group of clown loaches. I really like those guys but have never seen a truly successful group of them in less than 150 gallons. They just get too big for smaller tanks.
I grow lots of plants over a substrate of small gravel like in this tank.

The substrate in the tank is simply the cheapest potting soil I could find and is covered with coarse sand/fine gravel. What I shoot for is a fertile substrate with no added fertilizers, hence the cheapest I could find. The cover of coarse sand/fine gravel helps hold the potting soil in place and does not allow it to float around the tank causing problems.

 

[AshleyGracie]

Thanks for the encouraging words, it's a long and hard road so to be reminded there is light at the end of this tunnel is nice.
It is very unfortunate that clown loaches are sold to uneducated people. I'm at a loss at what to do with him; do I send him back to the pet shop and possibly let him be sold to someone with an even smaller tank or worse, have him die there, or keep him and try to do the best I can for him? I live in a very small town where fish keeping doesn't seem to be a popular hobby, but I could try to re-home him but again I'm risking him going to an even smaller tank. Like I said, really at a loss on what to do here.

Thanks for the plant info! Can not wait to get planting.

 

[OldMan47]

A clown loach is a delightful fish but it can easily reach 4 inches long and is best kept in significant numbers. For a fish that size and in large numbers considerable space is often requires. A fellow club member keeps them in his 160 US gallon tank and they prosper in that environment, but smaller tanks would mean far more maintenance to keep a group healthy. If you are willing to do tons of water changes, it would be possible to keep them in smaller spaces, but it would not be easy. I always go for the minimum maintenance approach because I know myself. No matter my good intentions, I never seem to follow through with high maintenance regimes.