New To Fish Keeping And Not Had Lots Of Luck So Far

[Chappers]

Hi all,
 
I've just joined the forum and thought I'd introduce myself and give you a run down of my fish keeping story so far.
 
I started fish keeping about three years ago when my three children wanted a pet. I didn't know a lot at the time and started off with a small maybe 15 litre tank and three goldfish. Needless to say the tank was way too small for that many fish and it didn't take more than a year for the first one to die.
 
I kept the other two goldfish in the small tank for maybe another year with no real problems, but as my daughter (whose goldfish had died) wanted another fish I started to read up a little about keeping them in a better environment.
 
I decided to get a separate tank for my daughter and just get her one goldfish for her room, unfortunately this one got caught in the filter and died after only a couple of weeks. About this time I realised that goldfish needed a fair bit more space than I was giving them so I upgraded the tank with the original two goldfish to a 45 litre tank that I'm still using.
 
I decided to change the filter in my daughters tank before getting her a platy and a danio to keep in her smaller tank. My poor daughter has the worst luck, and after maybe 2 months the danio jumped out of the tank and we found it on her bedroom floor. The tank even has a lid, but has a couple of gaps for wires and feeding.
 
And so things stayed for the next year or so, two goldfish doing pretty well in the 45 litre tank, and one platy in the 10 litre tank. That's not quite where it ends though.
 
One of the goldfish started to develop what I think were swimbladder problems and got a little lethargic, just sitting on the bottom all the time. I tried different diets, peas, pellets rather than flakes, an occasional bit of cucumber, some dried bloodworms, and mixed things up to vary the diet. The fish would pick up a bit now and again but not fantastically well, I even tried a swimbladder treatment that didn't seem to do anything. I then bought a water testing kit and I think the problem was water quality, and that I wasn't doing enough partial water changes. I started doing a 25% change every week rather than the 25% change every few weeks, and for a while the fish were all great again. Then I missed a week or two water change and the goldfish that had been unwell started to become lethargic again. I panicked a bit and did a 50% change, which must have altered too many factors and unfortunately the sickly goldfish died the next day.
 
The next disaster was back with my daughter when just last week her platy died.
 
I'm not entirely sure what happened to this one, so hopefully someone can point me in the right direction so I don't do it again. The story goes as follows. We were away for a week holiday, both tanks had been getting regular 25% changes, with a change the day before we left. I'd left one 5 day feed stick in the small tank, and 2 in the larger tank. We came back to the goldfish looking fine, but the platy being a little lethargic. The feed sticks were totally gone in the goldfish tank, but a little was left in the platy tank. I did a 25% change in both tanks and removed the leftover stick. The fish perked up and all was well with the world.
 
About a week later I was reading around various forums and unanimously I'd read that the platy should actually be kept at 24-28 degrees C, and I'd been keeping it at room temperature (around 21 degrees). I've got a heater that isn't used so I thought I'd warm the tank up a little. I'd read that this should be done slowly, so I took the tank up from 21 to 23 degrees and thought I'd leave it like that for a week before moving it up to just over 24. Before I got chance to move up to 24, maybe two days after introducing the heater, my daughter found her fourth dead fish (she wants a rabbit now).
 
So that's the story so far. I'd like to get another fish for my daughter (she isn't getting a rabbit) and another fish in the main tank for my son.
 
I'm thinking of getting my daughter three white mountain cloud minnows, but wouldn't mind some advice on if they are appropriate given it's only a 10 litre tank - she hasn't room for anything much bigger in her bedroom.
 
I've also been considering what I can get for my son as it would have to go in the main tank with the other goldfish. I've read that goldfish should pretty much just be kept with goldfish, but they can be kept with white mountain cloud minnows or zebra danios. I had a quick look at both in the local shop and they look too small to put in with the goldfish - I'm pretty sure they would be eaten. So I'm thinking another goldfish about the same size as the one I have. Again some help on that one please, is the 45 litre tank going to be enough for two goldfish?
 
Thank you to anyone who gets this far, and sorry for the long post. Also thanks to anyone who can offer some advice.
 
David

 

[Inga]

Well, David, there are several components to why you are having difficulty. To start, I agree, goldfish should be kept with goldfish, they produce a lot of ammonia from their waste, and you need to change the water often. Also, I would start buy purchasing a ph test kit, an ammonia (nitrite) test kit, and probably a basic book on keeping fish or read some of the online info for beginners starting a tank..
It should give you good information on the ph, (alkaline levels) that different fish require.. Your basic community tank can be ok with a 7.0 ph which is considered "neutral". Next, if you want fish such as danios, you should have a heater,.. most tropical fish (not carp such as goldfish) require a temperature near 76-78 degrees Fahrenheit. Usually your fish per tank ratio is one fish per gallon of water. This is for fish about 1 inch in size or less.
You can have success with goldfish in a tank with other goldfish but remember, every time you change the water, your changing the ph, and temperature of the water, unless you prepare the new water going into the tank by testing it before the water change. When the fish are stressed out by drastic changes in temperature and ph, they are susceptible to illness. Good luck. Have patience.

 

[Chappers]

Thanks for the advice Inga

 

[Tongue_Flicker]

Hey chappers welcome aboard!

 

[allydawn17]

I'd say a betta for your daughter, they are hardy and generally easy to care for. As for your son, 45 liters isn't exactly enough for one goldfish much less two. I'd stick with the one goldfish for now, unless your considering a larger tank.

 

[Blondielovesfish]

to the forum.
 
Sorry to be the bearer of bad news, but your tanks are too small for all of the fish you have put in them sorry.
 
Goldfish need at least 30 US gallons for one fish, with 15 gallons for every extra fish, so if you were keeping two, you would need 45 gallons, 3 would be 60 gallons etc.
That is for fancy goldfish, common goldfish like comets, need at least 75 gallons, and thats for one fish. 
The reason for the extreme tank sizes, is because goldfish are big, active fish that produce A LOT of waste. 
Comet goldfish can reach over a foot long!
If you keep your two goldfish in the 45 litre tank for much longer, they will become stunted which is where the fishes body stops growing, which is very painful and stressful for the fish, it can lead to an early death and/or longterm health effects. Also, in some cases, the fishes body will stop growing, but its organs won't, which can cause some serious deformations.
Your options are either getting a bigger tank or rehoming the fish, sorry.
 
Unfortunately, all you could have in your daughters tank would be some shrimp. 
Platies need at least 15 gallons.
 
Sorry for this post being so negative.

 

[Chappers]

Thanks for all the advice everyone. The more I'm reading the more I'm starting to realise that goldfish just aren't good beginner pets when you've got limited tank space.
 
So I think I'll try and rehome the goldfish if I can find something suitable. I'd like to keep the 45 litre tank if I can, what would be suitable to keep in that tank if I start again? I'd be happy with warm or cold water setup but would like to have a few fish in there if possible.
 
I might also think about a betta for my daughter is 10 litres enough, I could probably upgrade her tank a little if needed, what sort of size am I'm looking at for a betta?
 
Again thanks for the help, I really like having fish but want to try and get it right.

 

[Ninjouzata]

to the forum! Hope you enjoy it here.
 
So glad that you're planning on re-homing the goldie. It really is for the best.
You can definitely keep the 45l if that's what you want, HERE is a list of some fish that are suitable.
 
HERE is some information on keeping bettas. The 10l is ~2.5g, so technically, you could keep it in there. Maintenance would be a lot easier if you went up to a 5g or more though.
Personally I keep mine in a 20g long with some habrosus cories & a mystery snail. You can't do this with all of them as their personalities differ greatly, but it can be done.
 
You may also want to have a read of THIS to help you set up tanks in the future. It is a lot better for the fish & gives you time to plan your stocking.

 

[ag-au]

Welcome and hang in there! My first and only mollie lasted about a month. In my experience they are picky and their bioload is quite large. (Bio load is the waste a single fish produces) Mixing a piggy fish with a  small tank equates to  bad news. So don't feel too bad about that one. It's only a failure if you don't learn from the past!

 

[Chappers]

Really great stuff from everyone. No progress as yet on the goldie, but I am determined to find it a good home.
 
I have now decided to go for a betta for my daughter, and to make sure I finally get a fish in a tank that is an acceptable size, we've been out today and bought a new tank for her room, 24 litre, about the biggest I could go given the space. We've set the tank up today and I'm currently reading through the cycling article to make sure we get things right before we introduce the fish.
 
I'll keep you all updated as things progress.

 

[Chappers]

Here's a picture of the new tank before we put any water in. I've also got a test kit so I can monitor the cycling process.

 

[Ninjouzata]

Tank looks very lovely! I really like oriental decorations. Is there a lid? Bettas can jump, so you want to make sure the tank is covered.
 
HERE is a list that may help you find some ammonia so that you can start cycling the tank.

 

[Blondielovesfish]

Good choice on getting the new tank and working towards rehoming the goldies! So glad to hear you're doing this!
 
Before you get a betta, make sure to check if all of the decorations in his/her tank is betta safe, you can do this by rubbing some pantyhose against them, if the pantyhose snags, it would rip a bettas fins.
 
Good luck with the cycling! If you use some of the filter media from your ten litre tank then that will speed your cycling process up a lot.
What test kit are you using?

 

[Chappers]

Still working on where the goldfish can go, would a fish that's been kept in a tank do well in a pond?

Will check the ornaments, I'd read that about artificial plants but hadn't even thought about other stuff in there.

Fishless cycling has started, I found some ammonia in Homebase, after trying a few other places, thought I wasn't going to be able to get any.

I'm not going to use the 10 litre tank again so I've used the filter from that tank for the new one, hopefully it will help the cycle. I'm using the API testing kit with tests for pH, nitrite, ammonia, and nitrate. I'm keeping a log of all the results which I'll probably post at some point to show how the cycle is getting on.

Has anyone any experience of using interpet filter start? I got some with one of the other tanks and wondered if it would help speed up the cycle further?

 

[Ninjouzata]

It depends on what else is in the pond, how cold it gets where you live, and what size the goldie is now.
 
Glad to hear you've started cycling! Definitely keep a log of everything, makes it very easy to figure out what to fix if something goes wrong.
 
I have not used interpret filter start but most bacterias in a bottle do not work