New Tank Questions - Stocking, Cycling Etc

[jnms]

I will try and keep most of my questions to this thread otherwise I will ending up filling this board with new thread before long.

Still in the process of cycling my tank. The tank is 200ltr with a Fluval 305 filter.

I am planning on adding the following fish over the course of 4 or 5 months (slowly as cash is pretty tight...)

12x Black Phantom Tetras
1x Bristlenose
3x pairs of Neon Dwarf Gourami's
8x Guppies
3x Marble Angle Fish (will get these last and young ones so they are more likely to accept the tetras)

Here are the few questions I have at the moment:

1) Should I get the gourami's in pairs or should I just get 3 single males?
2) Which of the above fish would be best to add into a newly cycled tank first?
3) I have considered getting a few Red Wagtail Platties as the first fish...would this be a worthwhile to the above list?

 

[rossyboy]

I will try and keep most of my questions to this thread otherwise I will ending up filling this board with new thread before long.

Still in the process of cycling my tank. The tank is 200ltr with a Fluval 305 filter.

I am planning on adding the following fish over the course of 4 or 5 months (slowly as cash is pretty tight...)

12x Black Phantom Tetras
1x Bristlenose
3x pairs of Neon Dwarf Gourami's
8x Guppies
3x Marble Angle Fish (will get these last and young ones so they are more likely to accept the tetras)

Here are the few questions I have at the moment:

1) Should I get the gourami's in pairs or should I just get 3 single males?
2) Which of the above fish would be best to add into a newly cycled tank first?
3) I have considered getting a few Red Wagtail Platties as the first fish...would this be a worthwhile to the above list?

I'm not a tropical expert, but I have kept them...

The proposed list seems to be quite overstocked to me to be honest... i'll let the experts tell u which you should have but to me that's way too many fish for 200 litres.

 

[ALW]

Drop the Angelfish and you should be fine, maybe consider a pair of Dwarf Cichlids

 

[jnms]

Thanks rossyboy. I am not too worried about these stock levels as it works out to about 31 fish - each having 20 square cm of surface for each 1 cm of fish. Besides I will be adding the stock slowly.

But I am open to being corrected if I am way off on this...

Drop the Angelfish and you should be fine, maybe consider a pair of Dwarf Cichlids

Drop them because they equate to too much fish? Or because they aren't suitable for their tankmates?

 

[ALW]

The Angels may starting eating the Guppies and Tetras when they are fully grown.

 

[jnms]

Ok cheers. So how about my three main questions in the first post?

 

[ALW]

1. If it were me id get 1 male 2 female, Dwarf Gouramis can carry DGIV

2. I would first add the Tetras, then the Gupppies, then the Gouramis, then a pair of Dwarf Cichlids, then the Bristlenose

3.Yes this would be a good idea, Platies are very hardy fish dont get too many tough around 3 should be ok, either all males or all females.

 

[OldMan47]

If you go with platies and don't want more, get all males. All females will not be a way to avoid fry. The females that you run into have been in contact with males at some point and can carry sperm and keep producing fry for a good 6 months. Around here, there are no female dwarf gouramis available at pet shops. They can be obtained at club auctions but the stuff in pet shops has been treated on fish farms so that the colorful features of a male will come out even in a female. It is done by exposing the growing fish to male hormones and all the fish develop male features. These fish are not suitable for breeding and will act like they are all males.

 

[jnms]

Thanks OldMan, fortunatly in the shops round here we seem to have standard female dwarf gouramis - they are much smaller than the males and a pale brown colour.

Sorry Andy, what is DGIV?

 

[Miss Wiggle]

dwarf gourami imuno virus i think, have a look in the gourami forum and nmonks dwarf gourami FAQ which has more details.

the dwarf cichlids would be better in a trio, again more females than males, ideally you go for a 'hareem' so one male to 3/4 females but def at least 2 females to each male.

 

[rabbut]

Looks like others have overlooked this somehow, but Black Phantom Tetras are nippy. They will have the fins off the Guppies and Angels in no time IME Gonna have to choose between having the Guppies and Angels OR the Black Phantoms. Most taller bodied tetras have a nasty side to them, so TBH there are no similar alternatives...

Answering your three main questions;

1) Dwarf gouramis should be kept as a single male OR a trio with a male and two females as Andy says. Also, as Andy points out DG's are prone to a viral infection and tend not to last all that long if they are imports (as most are)

2) The Phantoms are the best suited IMO, but are nippy and you may choose to remove them from the stocking. After that, all but the guppies would be equally OK IMO. Platties if you choose them are also very well suited to a new tank

3) Platties are nice fish, and IMO would be a good replacement for the Tetras. They are suited very well to a new tank, and breed like rabbits if you have a female in the tank that has bred with a male at any point (they can have 4 lots of youngh from each mating )

IMO so long as the tank is over 18" tall, the angels will be fine with the rest of the stocking (excluding the Phantom Tetras due to nippyness) though some angels may go for the male guppies. All livebearers (guppies and platties) should be kept as all male or all female or at least two females to each male.

HTH
Rabbut

 

[jnms]

Thanks again for the info rabbut. It really is a shame as I really did want the Phantoms, I have really taken a liking to them.

Platties are nice, so maybe I will go for more of them. Do platties shoal?

Regarding the guppies - you feel they are unsuited to a new tank, or just aren't compatible with the other fish?

 

[rabbut]

Guppies are massively inbred these days, and even a mature tank may struggle to support them. Breeders in Singapore where they are imported from often use anti-biotics to keep them alive before sending them out to LFS's here. This means that they flake over very quickly, as the already weak fish now have compromised imune systems, as they are comming into contact with disease organisums that they diden't experience in the breeders tanks. If you can find locally bred fish (aquatics societies and the buy, sell and swap sections are good places to look ) they will likely be ok, but LFS imports are very flimsy. If you want them, wait untill the tank is 6 months old and don't be afraid of throwing in the towel if they don't do well for you. I have not had much success with them personally, despite me giving them the best care I could manage without the constant use of background level meds (I don't agree with using meds in the background to keep fish healthy. IMO meds should be used at full strength for a specific problem for a short while or not at all)

The Phantoms will have the tails off the male guppies in no time, and some (though not all) angels may peck at them. The only way to find out if your angels will have a go, is to add them and see how things go on. It's not a recomended stocking, but it can be made to work

Platties will shoal when first introduced IME but break-up once settled, just like your tetras will eventually

HTH
Rabbut

 

[jnms]

Cheers. Fortunately we have a local guppy breeder who breeds show guppies - and apparently they are very good stock. We will probably go for these.

I don't know if it is just me, but the guppies in most LFS just don't look as pretty as the ones I remember from 20 years ago. Maybe in recent years I am more of a cynic regarding what looks 'impressive'.

Ok then the phantoms look like they are out - maybe something for a future tank.

 

[jnms]

My Fishless Cycle has now reached that point where it processes the Nitrites down to 0 with 24hrs, then the next day it processes down to 0.3 within 24hrs and so on. So soonish it should be a constant 0.

It's interesting looking about at info on Fishless Cycles, some sources suggest that when ammonia and nitrites are processed to 0 within 24hrs the tank is considered 'cycled'. Other sources state that 12hrs is the time frame which indicates a 'cycled' tank.

Is there any reason for this? I know that the bacteria colonise to a size necessary to process the ammonia and nitrite levels they are fed. Yet why have the 12hr or 24hr time frames been chosen...why not 6hrs for example? I have a feeling it is to do with the bacteria colony reaching an optimal size, but if that is the case is 'optimal' the same as the 'maximum' size...could we not extend the fishless cycle to process within 6hrs or less?

Sorry for the rambled thought...