New tank - PH Question

[Skipper123]

Hi

I'm new to the site and fishkeeping in general, so I was wondering if anyone could just offer me some advice on my pH reading.

I got my 125l tank about a week ago and the I tested the pH after a few days and the reading was about 8.5. I know that our tap water is pretty hard so I'm guessing that I'm pretty much stuck with hard, alkaline water. My questions are this:

1) In the long-run are pH buffering kits worth the investment to bring down the pH value, given that for every water change I'll have to add pH-down treatment?

2) Some people I've spoken to say that that the high alkaline reading isn't that much of a big deal as most og the fish in the local stores are adjusted to the alkaline water?

3) With water of a high pH value, are the plants that I've got in the tank likely to die in the long-run? They seem to be doing fine so far...

4) Finally, I'm thinking of starting off (gradually) with platys and guppies and maybe adding gouramis of some sort later on. Any particular compatibility issues here or best order to introduce them or male female ratios??

5) Oh and does anyone know of any good fish stockists in west London?? Most of this bigger stores I've been to seem to have pretty poor quality fish.

Thanks a lot, really appreciate any advice - I don't want to start adding fish only to see them get ill or worse...

Cheers

Scott
UK

 

[tstenback]

Hello Scott and welcome to the forum.
The PH of the water is something that you are stuck with. Many try to adjust this through various means but in the end the result is often a more unstable tank and lots of problems. The fish at the lfs are most likely already acclimated to the water conditions in your area so i don't think that it is that big of a deal. Just pick fish that do better in that range of PH and everything should be fine. Also ask the lfs (if you can find a good one) if they treat for ph or just leave it alone. If they leave it alone then most fish they stock should be OK for you.
Most plants will adapt to the water conditions. But watch them for any signs of trouble. Most times it is trial and error as to which plants will thrive in your tank. There is a pinned article in the how does your garden grow forum on this site that may help in selection. HTH

 

[pendragon]

Admittedly, I have mixed feelings on altering pH.

I can say 100% without any doubt that it's far safer if you just don't tinker with it. When you manually alter your water's pH, you are always flirting with disaster. There are just too many ways it can go wrong. I learned this the hard way. Most fish, if acclimated gradually and properly, can adjust. The problem with the pH-adjusting additives available at the pet store (e.g. pH Up, pH Down, 7.0 Bullseye, etc.) is that they contain hefty doses of phosphorous, which will open you up to a world of hurt algae-wise. It's generally a good idea to stay well away from them, in the opinion of most experienced fishkeepers.

Now, having said that, and with total sincerity, my stubbornness compelled me to find as safe a way as possible to lower mine without using the phosphorous-rich stuff (my water is 7.2 right from the tap, but over a couple of days floats up to the 7.8 to 8.0 range). In the beginning, I had a DIY pH-adjusting disaster that killed several fish, and the ones that survived were only hanging to life by a thin thread. I promised myself I would never do that again, but as time went on I still felt that if I could find a safe way to bring pH down in a proper way that my fish would be grateful.

Time for the disclaimer here: Just because I do this, doesn't mean it's safe, or that you should do it, or that I'm encouraging you to do it. It's dangerous if not done right. Heck, it's probably dangerous regardless. But I will tell you how I do it, and so far *knocks on wood* this method has been reliably safe in my experience. I will also qualify this, though, by saying I'm probably a dense knucklehead for doing it. :stupid:

Here's what I do that works. I scoop about two gallons of tank water into a bucket and put it aside. Draw a skull-and-crossbones or something on the bucket so that no one (especially me ) mistakes it for regular water and puts it in the aquarium. I do this only at least two days after a water change and not less than two days before my next one. Into this bucket I drop the smallest splash of muriatic acid (bought at my local hardware store) I can pour by hand - and I really mean the smallest splash possible. I stir the water up and let it sit for a couple of hours. This is my acid solution. When my tank water gets up in the 8.0 range, and I want it to come down, I put one-quarter of a TEAspoon (and no more!) of the acid solution in the aquarium - let me pause here to say that my aquarium is 46-gallons, if it were smaller, I would adjust the dosage accordingly; the idea here is to *always* err on the side of caution. I wait at least six hours and re-test pH. If it hasn't come down, I add a one-quarter teaspoon dose of the acid solution, wait six more hours, and test again. Repeat until pH comes down, it won't take as many doses as you might think. For my aquarium (which is probably not in any way a reliable prediction for anyone else's, as our water chemistry may be very different), the first quarter teaspoon produces basically no change (absorbed by the buffer, presumably) and each one thereafter produces approximately a 0.2 to 0.4 change. I don't try to move mine much, only get it down in the 7.2 to 7.4 range. This is the "Easy Does It" approach, and I'm convinced that - if you must alter your pH - it's the way to do it. Do not ever be tempted to mix your acid solution any stronger - always make it as weak as you possibly can. Neither be tempted to put acid straight into the aquarium, no matter how little. Neither add acid solution when you water change (which can produce some pH change in itself).

There are some problems that accompany a very high pH, but I'll reiterate again, if you and your fish can stand your pH to be high, it's probably the more intelligent choice to just let it be.

pendragon!

 

[thecichlidaddict]

Let it be, let it be. Whisper words of wisdom, let it be.

Er.. sorry, song got into my head, but that pretty much covers my opinion on the matter of water perameters.

If you do decide that you would prefer to try and lower it, learn as much as you can about water chemistry first. The easiest methods are also the most unstable, and products like 'ph down' will not work. Also, as Pendragon states, the more you try to adjust it, the more unstable your aquarium will become, and once you do make adjustments you must make them to all of the water that you change from then on.

My PH is 8.2. All of my tanks are kept at these levels and I have no problems at all. Plants might be s different story though. More delicate plants will not thrive in water that is too hard and alkaline. if you choose tougher, easier to keep plants then you shouldn't have much problem.

 

[Skipper123]

Wow - thanks a lot for all the advice - really helpful. I guess I'll not bother adding PH down to the tank then and add a couple of hardy fish in a couple of weeks time.

I'm thinking of starting with a couple of platys then adding some guppies a few weeks later... which from all the texts seems to be a pretty sensible way of starting out...

Will no doubt be asking loads more questions when I finally get some fish!

Cheers

Scott

 

[gixer]

wow. 8.5 is pretty high.

you could add lots of bogwood to the tank this will naturally help to lower your ph. as will filtering your water through pete or using ro water.

or you could keep malawis who would love those conditions.

 

[Ricey]

i also suggest lots of bogwood. its the way nature lowers PH
its a slow process, but it works.
i started with a PH of about 8.2 and now i'm pretty stable at 7.5ish

 

[Skipper123]

Yep - I put in a large piece of bogwood on Sunday so hopefully that will start to lower the pH a bit.

I do have another (pretty daft) question, which is about breeding.

I guess when stocking a tank you put in a mixture of males and females (to replicate the natural environment) but surely if all the fish start breeding then you're going to end up will a massively overstocked tank?? Or do the eggs/ fry just get eaten/ die if you choose not to quarantine them??

I only ask as I'm not sure if I'd be able to handle 10 fish suddenly becoming a 100 in a few months!!

 

[gixer]

depends what fish your going to keep.. most livebearers breed like rabbits.

a lot of fry will get eaten you need lots of plants for them to hide etc..