New Tank nightmare

[sweeney_jones]

Evening !

OK, I made the stupidest of all mistakes. "My dad has always had a tropical fish tank, I always used to clean it out and buy fish . . . . so now I'll get one of my own"

So off I trotted, to the nearest fish shop and purchased a medium sized tank*, filter(fluval 3+), heater (set at 78), gravel, bog wood and a few plants. Filled it with TAP water, left it for a week, then added a few fish. (Cycling ? Whats that then . . . was my reaction when I logged into here for the first time ! ) )

*78cm * 30cm * 36cm . . . I make that about 75 gallons ?

So, I bought 10 neons, 5 male 5 female guppies, and 2 albino cats. I made another glaring mistake by buying these from a garden centre who obviously run this just as a side line, the "kids" serving were no help at all, and at close examination the fish weren't in great health. But all the neons have perked up now, apart from one . . . .

This was a over week ago. One neon died over night. One guppy has died each day since. I'm now down to 2 males and a female. The guppies seemed to develop some sort of white colouring on the top-middle of their bodies.

I tested the water with a 5 in 1 test kit and all seems fine.

Next move please folks. I'm about to do a 25% water change, but dont have any de-chlorinated water . . . . just the tap and a hose pipe.

What do I do !!!!!

Thanks,
Bob
:stupid:

 

[karrihug]

you need to buy dechlorinator, make sure you get one that handles chloramines too. stress coat is good, or there are several other brands out there too. and be prepared to change water every day or two till it cycles. is your test kit one of those dip strip things? does it test for ammonia?

 

[sweeney_jones]

Hi Karrihug,

Thanks for the reply. I will get a de-chlorinator, but I need to find a reputable LFS first, the garden centre is a no-go from now on !!!

The test kit tests for pH, GH, KH, NO2, NO3 . . . . so thats a NO then, doesn't test for ammonia. Will I have high levels of ammonia in a tank only 2 weeks old ? Should I ditch the 5 in 1 and invest in some individual test kits ?

Thanks again . .
Bob

 

[finnster]

Hi SJ - sorry to hear about your problems. You're not the only one who's done this kinda thing and I'm sure you won't do it again.
There's lots of products out there that will help speed up the growth of good bacteria in your tank. I've always used Waterlife products and I can recommend 'Bacterlife'.
I think you need to find a decent local shop that you can trust - one who will give you honest advice.
I believe that there's stuff out there too called Ammolok which helps to harness Ammonia - and there's also some kind of pillows that can be added to your filter which does the same kinda thing.
I'd also recommend small water changes every day or every other day using a dechlorinator like Waterlife's 'Haloex' and you need to get an Ammonia test kit too.
That way you can check on the rise in Ammonia levels and as they tail off you should enter the Nitrite stage. Once your Nitrites increase (get a kit for that too), the Ammonia will fall and the most poisonous stage is over. When your Nitrites (still poisonous but not as bad as NH3) drop you'll then enter the relatively harmless Nitrate stage. These are relatively harmless especially if you have live plants which will use them up - otherwise you can keep them low with fortnightly 20-25% water changes.
Finally, if you find a good local shop, they may even test your water for free - mine do but I always prefer to have the test kits in.
Good luck.

 

[canarsie11]

You are stating that this garden center does not have good product. But then you said you did not add dechlorinator to your water, that will kill your fish.

Maybe your fish are dying cause you did not properly adjust the water. Untreated tap water will kill fish!

 

[ajhainey]

Don't fret it - I was only saved from a similar mistake myself by the biOrb manual (best one I've seen yet with tank)...To answer your question: Yes you may well have high levels of ammonia - its the first to rise...For chems - you don't need a good shop (although its nice to support one if you find one). I would recommend...

1) No water changes till you get dechlorinator (buy an ammonia test kit at the same time)
2)When you get some dechlorinator immediately dose the entire tank - that said leaving water for a week would be long enough to dissipate chlorine naturally (assuming no chloramide) so you are probably ok on that particular count.
3) Test the tank - if you have ammonia greater than 1.0ppm - welcome to the world of water changes! Up to 2*30% daily as necessary to keep ammonia below 1.0ppm...Treat the fresh water with dechlorinator in the bucket before adding it to the tank. Also use a fish only bucket; fish + cleaning stuff do NOT get on
4) Don't name the neons ...IME they are not going to survive a cycling tank...There again they've outlasted the guppies..yours may be hardier stock than mine

If possible avoid ammo-lock - I believe it works (although not used myself) but the cheaper (one bottle) ammonia test kits can't differentiate between locked and 'free' ammonia so you can no longer tell how things really are in the tank...

There's tons more advice we could give, but I guess thats enough for now Once you start to see nitrite and nitrate you are on the home straight...

Keep us posted!

aj xx

 

[s6king]

Ammonia Levels can get real high in a new tank my test kit says it can get as high as 6.0 but when I first started my new tank it went to 8.0. Watch out though supposedly ammonia wil then turn to NITRITE (also toxic--although I have not seen this) then to nitrate. Maybe so live plants may help you also.

 

[Arfie]

Hi sweeney_jones,

Sorry to hear about your problems.

You don't need a good LFS to get products, get to ANY pet store, even pets at home as they sell dechlorinator and get an ammonia test kit (I like the 5 in 1 strips, but not having ammonia is a pain) whilst you're there.

Oh and your local supermarket may also sell them.

I also agitate the water as much as possible when adding to the bucket by holding the hose 3-4 feet above the bucket as this releases a lot of the chlorine (you can smell it come off ) from the water, this was a tip from my LFS, but beware this doesn't work with chloramine, but I know we do not get it in this area.

Here's an article on chorine/chloramine and removal.

Arfie

 

[clutterydrawer]

heya

As previosuly stated, your ammonia could easily be high - fish produce ammonia all the time and in an uncycled tank there is nothing to get rid of it so it just rises and rises. water changes are your friend.

Secondly, how did you calculate the volume of your tank? Because I make it out to be 84 litres, or 22 gallons.

 

[sweeney_jones]

Rate then,

Firstly, thanks for all the suggestions and kind words of support folks ! Much appreciated.

So, this is where I'm upto now. . . .

Things seem to be looking up. I'm now down to 2 male guppies, the 2 cats are fine, and I've still got 11neons . . . although some of them seem to have swollen bellies ? But all fish seems happy and healthy.

I have purrrrrrrr-chased the required test kits and my results are as follows . . .

In first place, is the NitrITE at a big fat ZERO
2nd place is Ammonia at 0 - 0.5 ppm
and third is NitrATE at 5ppm

Nothing too much of a problem there I presume ? Anyway, for the past 2 nights I have done about 25% water changes, de-chlorinated this time of course !

The only thing I have noticed is the slight brownie yellow discolouring of the water, like very weak tea ! Is this down to the 3 lumps of bog wood I have added ?

I'm dying to get some more fish in there but really want to make sure everythings cool. I have a fuval 3 filter in there, seems to be creating a strong current, even on the low setting, is this OK ? I'm not used to this as I've always seen under gravel filters in the past with a couple of air blocks. Also, one of the bits of bog wood has masses of plants attached, I was hoping this may help the bacteria populate ??

And - 22 gallons sounds more realistic, good job I haven't treated the tank on my calculations ! )

Any more advice welcomed people.

Bob

Edit - Ooops, forgot pH - 6.5, is that too acidic ??

 

[clutterydrawer]

Heya

It sounds like you're doing great . They should be able to survive the 0.5ppm ammonia. As long as you keep mopnitoring it and doing water changes accordingly your fish should be ok. It's interesting that you have nitrAtes but no nitrItes though, as nitrAtes are converted from nitrItes. Do you have any nitrAte in your tapwater?

pH 6.5 is good for the fish you have. Corydoras and neons like a slightly acidic pH and I'm not sure about guppies but I don't think they'd mind it.

The discolouration of the water is from the bogwood. This doesn't harm the fish - it can lower the pH but only in very large quantities. If you find it unattractive to look at, take the wood out and boil it a lot. Or you could add activated crbon to the filter to remove it, but this needs replacing very often cos it loses effect after a while.

When ammonia and nitrite are at zero, and nitrates seem to be increasing, your tank is cycled and you can get some more fish. I would recommend another couple of albino cats as they like to be in shoals.

The outflow of the fluval 3 can be twizzled round I believe - play around with repositioning the filter and redirecting the flow, because if you can direct it against the glass of the tank, the force of the current will dissipate. Although if it isn't bothering your fish you don't need to - when I had guppies they loved to play in the current. neons might not like it though. Also, the stronger current causes more surface agitation, which means your water is better oxygenated.

I've heard plants help to add to the bacteria population but I'm not sure whether this only applies when they've come from an established tank.

Here's how I calculated the volume in case you ever need to know:

78 x 30 x 36 = 84240

84240 / 1000 = 84.2, this is the volume of your tank in litres

divide by 3.785 to get the volume in US gallons = 22.25

K school's out for today have fun with your tank

 

[littleme1969]

Guppies...lol
I think they are the hardest to settle in and its a struggle to keep them alive past a week. The strange patch on the sides of the fish sounds like dropsy to me (caused by either a fungal infection or bacterial under the skin) Its very hard to treat and to my own cost I have found most die. The problem with guppies is they have very delicate immune systems, and the change in water PH can cause a type of shock that causes the fishes immune system to become even more weakened and so allows things like dropsy fin rot etc to take hold.. and within days you loose all the fish.
The only way round it is a *hospital tank* small... about 3 gallons or so will do the trick for 3 guppies . Set it up without gravel etc heater and air block for oxygen and maybe some silk plastic plants for a bit of cover to make them less stressed. Same as you would a normal tank but with all the frills and gravel.
What you then need to do is find out what PH etc that the fish are kept in at the shop, that way its less of a change for them. Also helpfull is ask the LFS for another bag of water out of the tank plus the water you have with the fish then add this to your hospital tank at home, that way there is even less change.

Leave them to settle for about a week until you are sure they are showing no signs of illness then slowly remove the water out of the tank and replace with the water from your main tank. This way they have time to adjust to the new levels.
Do it over a week or so.. making sure that the PH never changes anymore than 0.3 in any given 24 hours.

Another good reason for the hospital tank is, as guppies seem so prone to probelms when been moved you will probably have to treat them. And its far better and cheaper to treat in a seperate and small tank than risking damage to the other fish in the large tank.

Also hospital tanks come in handy for sick fish/ pregnant mums a few days off giving birth ( but use water direct from main tank to avoid shock) Clean out thoroughly between uses!
They are just a good idea to have and can be purchased for not a great deal of money.