New Tank Cycling

[fatbobsufc]

My new tank has been running since Wednesday with a Jewel biological filter. I have tested my levels and they are as follows:

ph 8

ammonia - (virtually none)

nitrite 0.3

Whereabouts would this put me in the cycling process? I am thinking of adding cycling fish on Tuesday. Thanks in advance.

 

[Waterloo Kid]

You don't give any nitrate values. To know how the cycling is going this value is needed.
I'll have a guess though. I'm assuming that you are doing a fishless cycle. There are two possibilities:

1/ No nitrate present. This means that you have the bacteria that turn ammonia to nitrite present in the tank, although not enough of them as ammonia should read zero, nothing else. Time will see these guys grow in numbers. No nitrate would indicate that the bacteria that turn nitrite to nitrate are not yet present. Your cycle is about a third complete. Give it time.

2/ Nitrate present. This means that you have all the bacteria present in the tank but not in sufficient quantities to fully deal with the toxins in the tank. This would put the cycle approx half to two thirds complete. A little more time would be required again, but not as much as in 1 above.

Personally, with the relatively small amount of nitrate showing I'd guess you have case 1 above. Over the next couple of weeks or so you will see the nitrites rise and ammonia drop to zero. Nitrites should start dropping off and then you will see a gradual increase in nitrates. Once nitrites are zero you can start stocking the tank.

If you don't wait then you may as well have done a cycle with fish. Be patient and you will have a nice stable tank for your new fish in a matter of a few weeks. Check the pinned posts on cycling at the top of the beginners forum for more details.

Hope that helps,

WK

 

[andyt_uk]

you are still at the beginnig of the cycle
you need to introduce some levels of ammonia before the cycle starts

you can do this in 3 ways

add some fish - can be risky, but some really hardy ones should be ok if you monitor things carefully

add some pure ammonia - may be difficult to get hold of

add some high protein fish foods - maybe mush up some stuff in warm water - leave it to fester a bit (day or two) then add a teaspoon a day for a few days

check your levels - you should expect ammonia to go up slowly, then your nitrite and nitrates should increase
when your ammonia levels drop but nitrite and nitrate stay within accpetable levels you may be ok

problem is the good guys only actually start working when you introduce the bad guys (ammonia)
the good bacteria multiply in reaction to the amounts of ammonia/nitrite etc present

when you add more fish a little mini cycle will begin, with the ammonia content initially increasing faster than the good bacteria can deal with it, but they eventually catch up and everything settles down again

i am a novice, but fishkeeping has been in the family for years, i also have a degree in chemistry so understand the cycle (although it is more a biological process than a chemical one), i aqlso too frequent water changes too early on can do more harm than good - you remove the ammonia, so the bacteria have no need to multiply to deal with it.

i am currently cycling with 3 fish in there - i decided there were as many opinions as there were sources.. both on cycling and which fish to start with - so decided to pop some fish in (always worked for my dad) and chose 3 that i liked the look of when i got to the shop - but hey - i'm a rebel at heart

some may say a rebel without a clue - time will tell - of course in the last week i have a suspected ICH outberak and a suspected anchor worm...

oh i'd also test your tap water - you'll probably find the make up of your tank is virtually the same as the tap, that'll be where the nitrite comes from (although i would more expect nitrate in the taps)

 

[fatbobsufc]

This advice has been useful to me thanks. Although I think I may not have explained myself properley.

My intention was to cycle my 44 gallon tank with 1/2 dozen platys. After introducing the water on Wednesday, I intended to wait for a week before adding the cycling fish which I intended to keep in the tank for 6 to 8 weeks. In order to help the process along a little bit, I have added two small pinches of goldfish flakes (and a couple of little midges that were flying around the house at the weekend!). On Saturday I added 20 kilos of large Scottish Granite Cobbles (which my LFS told me were ph neutral). On Sunday I tested the levels outlined above.

Should I be looking to add my Platys soon? My ultimate intention is to keep Mbuna Cichlids. Thanks in advance.

 

[fatbobsufc]

Think I'm going to add the Platys tonight. Any comments?

 

[andyt_uk]

other people will probably disagree, but my personal feeling is .. yeah, why not - just keep monitoring your levels and dont get too eager to add more fish too soon

 

[platypus]

One thing to bear in mind - if you are going ahead with cycling with fish then I think you should start with just a couple of platies rather than 6 all in one go. This is because if you add that many all at once your ammonia levels will whoosh up once they start producing waste and you might end up losing the lot. You can always get a couple, wait a few days, get a few more etc. etc. It's a bit more frustrating but worth it in the long run if it saves the fish from getting ill and saves you a lot of money!

 

[Alien Anna]

some may say a rebel without a clue - time will tell - of course in the last week i have a suspected ICH outberak and a suspected anchor worm...

I was just the same - I've studied biochemistry at University so understand the science behind the Nitrogen Cycle and also why ammonia and nitrite kill fish. But I just wasn't comfortable with the whole idea of fishless cycling. So I cycled with fish and lost the lot the first time (a school of minnows) and the second time my fish appeared to get through it just great but then developed a variety of diseases and I lost quite a few, including a betta that died prematurely (his immune system never seemed to recover from cycling).

I then cycled a large tank using fishless cycling (fish food method, since I couldn't find any ammonia here in UK) added a pile of new fish all at once and everything's been such plain sailing.

Sometimes you just have to learn by your own experiences.

 

[Alien Anna]

One thing to bear in mind - if you are going ahead with cycling with fish then I think you should start with just a couple of platies rather than 6 all in one go. This is because if you add that many all at once your ammonia levels will whoosh up once they start producing waste and you might end up losing the lot. You can always get a couple, wait a few days, get a few more etc. etc. It's a bit more frustrating but worth it in the long run if it saves the fish from getting ill and saves you a lot of money!

It's very important not to mix the methods with Fishless Cycling and cycling with fish (what I'd call traditional cycling method).

If you cycle with fish you need to add very few fish slowly over a period of a couple of months at least and some fish you must not add until cycling is complete (fish such as cardinal tetras, corys and clown loaches, for instance). Cycling may take 2 or 3 months to complete and you'll have to be very patient and very diligent with water changes (trying to keep a balance between keeping ammonia and nitrite levels down so your fish don't succumb, but high enough to feed your developing beneficial bacteria). At least in the early stages, you may well have to do 10-15% water changes once or twice daily.

If you use fishless cycling techniques its very important to add a sufficient bioload once the tank is cycled, to keep all those beneficial bacteria fed. So once the ammonia and nitrite levels have dropped to zero (which could be a week to two weeks or more), add a reasonable number of fish within a couple of days, or you'll have to keep "feeding" the bacteria with ammonia or fish food. You shouldn't switch method mid process, as adding fish to a fishless cycled tank with ammonia or nitrite in the water is possibly worse than cycling with fish in the first place.

The most common mistakes with the traditional method is in adding too many fish, too fast causing a severe ammonia spike and killing off all your fish. You need to start with a couple of danios or whatever and gradually add more.

The most common mistake with fishless techniques is to leave off the "feeding" of the bacteria for a few days, which causes them to die off and you're back to square one.

 

[fatbobsufc]

[QUOTE You need to start with a couple of danios or whatever and gradually add more.

[/quote]
I understand what you're saying, but considering it's a 44 gallon tank and my ammonia level is curently zero (tested last night) and nitrite is 0.3 wouldn't half a dozen fish be better?

 

[Alien Anna]

[QUOTE You need to start with a couple of danios or whatever and gradually add more.

I understand what you're saying, but considering it's a 44 gallon tank and my ammonia level is curently zero (tested last night) and nitrite is 0.3 wouldn't half a dozen fish be better? [/quote]
If you add more than a couple at once there is a major danger of getting an ammonia spike. You simply don't have enough beneficial bacteria grown in that tank yet for the waste from several fish, and in fact you haven't even got the bacteria to turn nitrite into nitrate yet. This is the major disadvantage of cycling with fish - you have to progress painfully slowly.

 

[fatbobsufc]

You simply don't have enough beneficial bacteria grown in that tank yet for the waste from several fish, and in fact you haven't even got the bacteria to turn nitrite into nitrate yet. This is the major disadvantage of cycling with fish - you have to progress painfully slowly.

Message received and understood. I'll defer to the experts on this one and just buy a couple tonight!

 

[platypus]

Message received and understood. I'll defer to the experts on this one and just buy a couple tonight!

Good luck and let us know how it goes!

PS Come on West Brom

 

[fatbobsufc]

PS Come on West Brom

You'll be crying in your cuppasoup tomorrow

 

[platypus]

You'll be crying in your cuppasoup tomorrow

I'm not even a Baggie I just hate Neil Warnock soooo much!