New Marine Setup

[balon]

So I've recently made a change to a Saltwater setup and was looking for an opinion or two.

My tank is 240l (taller than wide) with 2 koralia 2s, a tetratec 1200 running through a vecton v2 400 UV unit. In the canister is just a single thin particulate filter sponge with some small live rock pieces.No livestock or skimmer as yet. SG is 1.023 at 25.5 C and pH seems to be a little high (between 8.4 and 8.8). That's about as accurate as it gets with my test kit.

I had airstones running from the start until 2 days ago when I heard they were a bad idea. I thought they would help dechlorinate the tap water I used to fill the tank. (I've since got an RO unit)

I've used some tufa and ocean rock as base rock and about an inch or two of crushed coral sand. I've added a total of about 13kg of live rock so far and over about a week and a half, tested low levels (0.25-0.5) of Ammonia and Nitrite which have yesterday tested as 0. Nitrate levels are low.

Lights have been on 24x7 for the last week or so and there's now a brown algae covering on the outer rocks and the beginnings of hair algae can be seen on some pieces so the signs are there that cycling has completed and it's time for a small water change

I was expecting to see higher nitrite levels before returning to zero.. Is it normal to see low levels returning to zero in a short period and can I expect to have adequate bacterial load at this stage to add a fish and some cleaner crew?

I want to be careful about the next stage so appreciate any suggestions or dos and don'ts

cheers for any thoughts

 

[AK77]

Hi,

Are you going for a FOWLR or looking to go for a reef setup eventually? If you've used dechlorinated tapwater, then its likely that your nitrates are going to be too high for inverts in a CUC. What are your nitrate levels? Did you use tap water dechlorinator or relying on air stones to dechlorinate it?

Also your tap water will contain copper and other contaminents that will affect shrimps and hermits. If you now have an RO unit, I personally would drain down the tank and replace the water with RO/Saltwater.

There is no need to keep your lights on 24/7 either. Since you have no corals, the only thing thats going to benefit is algae and you will suffer terribly with the stuff as a result, especially as the nitrate/copper in your water rules out keeping hermits and other inverts that would feed on it.

 

[balon]

Hi,
Thanks for your response, I'd eventually like to have a reef setup but will take it slowly.

Nitrates are between 5-10ppm and I only used airstones to dechlorinate. The 24x7 lights idea was designed to speed up cycling but I can see why it would also promote algae.

So you reckon start again rather than 50% or so water change?

 

[AK77]

Eeek!

I'm surprised that the levels have dropped and that the chlorine in the water hasn't killed off the bacteria in the live rock! If you are planning on a reef setup eventually, then I would strongly suggest that you remove all the tap/saltwater and start again with RO/Saltwater. Corals are highly sensitive to copper, as are invertebrates like crabs, shrimps, starfish etc and you could spend hundreds of pounds on then, only to have them die as you have traces of it in your tank.

I know its really exciting to have a marine set up and you are probably really eager to get all the goodies in there but, its sounds a little like more research and planning is needed on keeping them. Coming from a freshwater background will be an advantage as it gives you an understanding of the nitrogen cycle but, there are more factors to take into consideration with saltwater fish and especially corals.

Dechlorinated tapwater is fine for a FO tank, as marine fish can handle a higher rate of nitrates than freshwater can, and if they are going to be the only creatures in the tank, then other contaminents aren't an issue. FOWLR relies on the bacteria in the LR to perform the nitrogen cycle. If you dump tap water straight in your tank, you will most likely kill or significantly impact upon the bacteria in the rock, thereby leading to ammonia spikes etc. Dechlorinated with LR is ok but again, due to contaminents like copper that is found in tapwater, you won't be able to keep inverts or corals. As tap water usually contains a high nitrate level anyway, you'll also suffer with algae galore.

If it were me, I'd drain this tank down and start again. I'd also run some copper absorbing treatment too, just to play it safe. No point spending £50 on a couple of corals only to watch their demise.

 

[balon]

You're talking a lot of sense and the last thing I want is to buy livestock and watch it perish... I plan on it being FOWLR for a while so don't know if a few months of regular water changes with RO saltwater would eliminate any copper/contaminants....?

The tank was running at least a week before any LR was added so the tap water was probably someway dechlorinated by then.

Bugs me a bit though that LFS said would be fine for first fill to use tap water and RO later. I'm prepared to start again if needs be as better to get it right from th start than spend forever fixing problems.

Thanks again for your input

 

[AK77]

You're talking a lot of sense and the last thing I want is to buy livestock and watch it perish... I plan on it being FOWLR for a while so don't know if a few months of regular water changes with RO saltwater would eliminate any copper/contaminants....?

The tank was running at least a week before any LR was added so the tap water was probably someway dechlorinated by then.

Bugs me a bit though that LFS said would be fine for first fill to use tap water and RO later. I'm prepared to start again if needs be as better to get it right from th start than spend forever fixing problems.

Thanks again for your input

You're welcome. It doesn't happen that often lol. Marine keeping, depending on the type of setup you have, can have a large amount of variables and problems. Eliminating them before you even get started is definitely a plus in my book.

The water probably was somewhat dechlorinated, although there are two types they put in water nowadays, One evapourates off fairly readily, the other..... which I think is chloramine (don't quote me on that) is significantly harder to remove from water. My thought process was when it came time to do a water change or topping off with "fresh" tap water, and what would happen then.

Keeping it FOWLR is probably the best thing to do for now. Get familar with everything involved in doing that. Its merely a stepping stone to a reef tank and you could always start with easy corals like xenia, mushrooms, zoa's and leathers.

Personally I would do as big of a water change as possible first to remove as many contaminents as possible. Doing 50% and then another 50% is just watering it down gradually and isn't guaranteed to remove as many as a huge one would.

If you can I'd recommend putting the live rock into a container with RO/Saltwater mix with a heater and powerhead to circulate the water. This will keep the rock alive. I'd then drain the tank down. Refill with RO/Saltwater and place your LR back into the tank. I forget the name of the product that absorbs copper, but its probably readily available from most LFS or online.

The advice the shop gave you wasn't necessarily incorrect. For a FOWLR tank, tap water is fine, provided you dechlorinate it first and don't intend on keeping corals or invertebrates for the reasons mentioned above. If they said it was ok to use for a reef tank, then yes, it would be incorrect advice.

Cycle your tank as normal, testing for ammonia, nitrite and nitrate as normal. You will get algae blooms, which is perfectly normal. Once your nitrates are low enough I'd then add a few hermit crabs, snails and perhaps a shrimp of some kind. See how they get on. If they show no adverse effects and are still alive after a few weeks then I would say you were ok to add corals. Try a small xenia colony. They don't require any looking after. If these grow happily, then you should be safe to proceed with more corals.

Its a learning curve and there is a lot of take in but, its well worth the effort as I don't think anything looks so striking as a reef setup.

Just out of interest, what lighting are you using and how deep is the tank?

 

[balon]

Cheers again, plenty of good words and sense. I'll do as you suggest and I can spend a bit of time designing the aquascape. Will check at LFS tomorrow for copper absorber

Tank is roughly 30 inches deep with 4x24w t5s... Had them about a year. You reckon they will do the job?

 

[AK77]

Hi again.

Your lighting should be fine provided they are the correct type of bulbs for marine. Ideally you want a colour rating starting at 10'000k going as high as 20'000k or even 30'000k, although I found these to be too blue for my liking. Maybe 2 x 10'000k and 2 actinic blues, as these would really make the colour of the fish and corals pop. I'm assuming that since this is a new setup and your bulbs are about a year old, that they are for freshwater fish. They'd need replacing anyway due to their age, even if they were for marine.

Some corals prefer lower lighting and calmer flow rates, so they would better be positioned at the bottom of the tank, away from powerheads and obviously further from the light source. Corals that require stronger lighting and currents would need to be positioned higher up the rocks, so if you do intend to keep them, bear this in mind when you are aquascaping. Also, try to create little bolt holes or caves, as this will provide good hiding places for smaller fish and inverts. Have you thought about your stocking list, fish wise?

If you don't already have sand in your tank, its a good idea to put your base rock in first, maybe on some egg crate. This will prevent the bottom of the tank from cracking and also, when the sand is added, the rocks won't sink into it, giving you a sturdy platform on which to stack other rock on top. If you do already have sand in there, make sure you push the rock deep into it. If you don't and you stack the rocks, the increase weight can cause the base to sink, thereby making it unstable and you run the risk of a rock slide in your tank. Falling rocks + glass tanks filled with water = receipe for disaster lol.

Have a look at as many tanks as possible for ideas on rock arrangement. There are a lot of different styles, some better suited to particular tanks than others. Try perusing the journals section or googling for images.

 

[balon]

Hi AK,

Yup, will probably get some new bulbs in time due to their age. I'm, well used to rock management - the last setup had a wall of ocean/tufa rock covering the back of the tank. It can be dangerous if not properly stress tested!

Not really sure what fish I'm going to have just yet but will probably avoid any predators or overly dominant species. Once water is stable, I'll likely start with a CUC and take it from there. My better half loves puffer fish but I hear they're not best suited to a community...

Had a look at some setups and came across your recent project. Great job on it. Well done!