New marine fan

BeerShark

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Nov 3, 2004
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Kangaroo Island, South Australia
Hey everyone,

Ive wanted a marine reef setup for aslong as i can remember but never had the money time or the real motivation to go out and get one. Now ive got the time and money and from reading this forum and seeing how interesting it all is ive finally decided to try set one up. I originally wanted a temperate setup and collect my own stock but due to the cooler costs and other difficulties i decided against it so so its tropical for me. Now ive got a few questions.

I visited my LFS and looked at a few tanks, im probably going for around the 150- 200L mark ( not sure what that is in gallons) all the tanks i looked at came with a few pieces of live rock, and a hood with 3 fluero lights and built in filter system, not 100 % on all the details as i went there before i read alot on here, i was told that because of the way the hood is i cant use a protein skimmer at all with it but wouldnt need to because of the effiency of the filtering system. i plan on having alot of live rock and inverts with a few small fish and providing i dont turn out to be a horrible tank keeper i'd like to get some corals and the like.

I would really like to run a setup thats as natural as possible with the live rock filtering and a good cleanup crew to keep the tank as clean as possible and also trying to keep the tank as low maintenance as possible. So whats the deal with a protein skimmer? is this filter thats going to be built into the hood going to be made obsolete by the live rock ( i hope to add a fair bit of it). the tanks are all of simmilar design too, none of them are long and shallow, they are fairly deep tanks so are these still ok for a reef setup?. sorry if any of these questions are stupid but i hear stupid questions are the easiest to answer.

Thanks
 
Welcome Beershark.

If, in the end, you intend to have a fully blown reef system with corals, the most important consideration is lighting.
A deeper tank will require deeper pockets where lighting is concerned. Don't let this deter you from a larger tank however. The cost for lighting is significant no matter how you slice it.

IME a tank of under 20" in depth will do fine with a quality VHO setup. Any deeper, and halides are a must. Halides are also a requirement if you are going to stock sps corals no matter what your tank depth is.

I would avoid any kind of "in hood" filtration. Live rock will meet 99.99% of your filtration needs. I am a believer though of having secondary filtration available in the case of having to use a media to reduce any spiking parameters in the event of a mini cycle occuring from an initial bio-load increase. This can occur with the addition of new stock, or having an ammonia spike from an unfortunate loss.

The majority of the reef world uses a skimmer in their system. IT is the time honored method of removing dissolved solids from the water column. Yet, there has been a growing crowd going in ither directions to achieve this.

Navarre is our resident no skim expert. If you were to approach him, I am sure he would fill you in on alternatives.

Lastly, to give yourself the greatest odds for success and to provide for future additional hardware, I recommend a drilled tank with a sump underneath. This allows you the greatest flexibility and is a move you won't regret.

GL
 
Hi and welcome to the forum!

After reading your post its great to see that you are doing rom serious research before parting with your money.
As for a natural system, I really beleive this is the best way to g obut with each and every tank comes with it its own peculiarities and quirks. I dont run a skimmer (as mentioned by gretlakes) but this is because i am lucky enough to have a very unique set of circumstances in my favor (sump, mineral mud system and natural sea water.)

If i were not using Natural Sea water and feeding with Live Phyto Plankton then i would be using a skimmer also.
Basically a skimmer works like this....

A skimmer forced a jet of tiny micro bubbles into a chamber where water is passed through its from the main tank, trough the skimmer and back intothe tank again. The water that passes through will have nutrients in it and as the bubbles come in contact with this nutrient rich water then the "nutrients" will stick to the surface of the bubble (its attracted to the air). These micro bubbles that are noe nutrient rich will rise into the chamber and eventually find their way to a "holding cup" where its collected in the form of a dirty brown foul smelling liquid. This liquid can simply be thrown away and thus it hlps keep the system clean.

If you ever visit the Ocean and notice around rocky areas that a sort of Foam is forming on the surface around the rocks. This is naturals own protien skimmer and how the sea helps to get rid of its nutrient rich areas (hence why people advise getting natural sea water from deep water areas to avoid poor quality).

So in theory, a protien skimmer is actually a "form" of natural filtration also. However, this is also 1 area that has been possibly "overperfected" by man. Some skimmers are so efficient that i beleive that if they are used in the wrong type of system they can do more damage than good.

If you run a system like mine that has waters that carry plankton and living organisms in the water colum as a natural occorance then a high quality skimmer can remove these as well as the poor quality stuff too :*) However, if you have a system that uses artifial water and live rock then a good quality skimmer can actually do a great job by removing nutrients before they even enter the ammonia cycle.

I personally prefer to recomend a skimmer that is renowned for underskimming. Prozms are excellant at this as they do tend to "underskim" and this means they are not as efficient as some of the ore expensive skimmers.

Hope this helps a little. Im sure this will raise a few more questions also which i will be happy to answer.

Some food for thought anyway ;) :D
 
Thanks for the input guys, its not so much the money im that worried abotu when setting up my tank if i fail, its the livestock cos its not really their fault they're stuck in a tank with someoen who doesnt know what theyre doing trying to look after them :( but ill give it my best shot!. Im in Ausstralia in one of the smaller capital cities and in aus we are behind at the best of times my lfs doesnt seem to really know what they are doing anywhere near as well as most of you do. so is there any way to use a skimmer with these tanks with a hood? i was told at the LFS that there wasnt. one other question, if i end up moving house in the next 2-3 years how do u go about moving the reef? i a unsure how long ill be staying where i am but its in the 2-3 or possibly longer range but having a reef tank seems to be a fairly permentant sort of thing.
 
Placing a hang on skimmer alongside a tank with a hood is fairly simple but the hood usually needs a slight modification. Usually this means cutting out a small section to fit the inlets and outlets but thats all.


How do you move an established reef of 2 or 3 years? Carefully! ;)

It can be done but make sure you have enough bags/buckets and containers to hold all the corals etc. Try to make the journey as short as possible to minimise stress and if possible, take as much of the water with you as possible so the tank will still be as close to how it was just a few hours before hand
 
Ok ive been trying to find a picture of the style of tank ill most probably end up getting as there arent really many shops in this city for this kind of thing, most LFS's being normal pet shops with 3 kinds of puppy and 2 different types of goldfish :(. i found a site where someone has a much smaller version of the tank with some pics and a diary

http://home.swiftdsl.com.au/~missreeftank/my_diary.htm

thats it neways, the tank im getting will be roughly nearly 4x the size of that one but u can see the hood and inbuilt filter, just so u know what im getting, maybe u can tell me soemthing about any difficulties i might have with it. also a few nice pics on the site, still doesnt compare to yours nav but pretty nonetheless

i just found a very simmilar model to the one i was thinking fo getting only its alot smaller.

http://www.adelaideaquariums.com.au/products/aquaria.html

its the all in one system with the trickle filter. i just rang the shop and they said i could drill some holes in the hood as u said to suspend a skimmer in there, also possible to remove some of the fluero lights to fit others for more light intensive corals in the future if i really got industrious. he also advised me to go with a DSB, another question is should i put something between the sand and the live rock or just sit my rock on the sand? sorry if im aksing alot of questions but u guys are a big help.
 
The design of tanks with the trickle filters in the hood are just reaching the stores over here in the UK and i saw my first one yesterday. I was actually very impressed with the design and feel that it does show promies.
However i do have no real experience with these types of tank so i feel it would be better for someone who has expeeerience with them to make their comments heard. However I will say that if you add enough live rock then the tank should be ok regardles of the filter in the hood. You might get a nitrates creeping up but you also have a tiny "refugium" style area above the tank where pods can grow and breed in safety. Because its gravity Feed (i beleive it is) then these pods will flow steadily into the tank and give a steady supply of live food for the fish etc and ths is a good thing IMO.

As for my own tank.. Its not that stunning to be honest... lots of work needs ot be done still and there are many others here who ahve done fine jobs with their tanks! Remember its not the size thats important its how best you make of the size you have at your disposal :look: :*) :whistle:

I dont recomend a DSB for beginners. They can be tricky to set up and the warnihng signs should they start to go wrong can easily be misse causing a major tank crash. Live rock will be ideal for starters and if you want to make it even more efficient then do as you have suggested and place the rock on a rack system with a spraybar underneath to add to the circulation around the rock.
 

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