New Fish With Camallanus Worm? Or Something Else?

[shrimply]

Hey guys, me again, with more problems.  Maybe I should have learnt my lesson the first time with this supplier.
 
I've just bought 7 torpedo barbs,they weren't exactly cheap and I'd very much like to keep them alive.  They are currently in a (cycled) quarantine tank, 24C, with lots of water flow and surface movement and have been there since Friday.  They all seem relatively active and are displaying nice colouration and showing plenty of interest in food.
 
Two of them seem to constantly appear to have something thin and red protruding from the anus, and the anus appears swollen. In my eyes, generally this isn't thin enough to be a worm, and it's not tread like.  Initially I thought it was dark coloured faeces that it was struggling to pass, and that's exactly what it looks like. My immediate thought was camallanus worms and I'm dreading that I might be right.  However, everything I read says these worms won't protrude when the fish are active, which isn't the case here.  And when I netted and checked the fish, I could see the red colouration, almost like it was an inflamed anal tract within the anus.
 
At current time I also suspect there may be ich present, and there is definite signs of internal parasites of some description.   One individuals has a sunken belly and there is white and clear faeces.  This being the case I dosed the tank with flubenzadole, and also fed them some food soaked in it.  And additionally added some antibacterial meds (eSHa 2000) to combat any possible secondary bacterial infection.  This was last night, as of now, I have seen no evidence of any worms being expelled and symptoms seem to be the same, but the fish all seem unaffected by the meds.
 
I also gave them some peas yestreday in case constipation was likely to be an issue.
 
So any thoughts, am looking into ordering some Levamisole hydrochloride, if it is indeed camallanus worms but it would be good to hear your thoughts on what I'm doing wrong, or right.  And additionally if anyone has any definite ways of correctly diagnosing the worms for me.
 
Thanks

 

[star4]

With active fish like torpedo barbs you can see camallanus worms protrude from the anus. When I had these little horrors it was with a group of rummy nose tetra. Sunken belly and white faeces will also be seen with these worms.
 
I used Sera Nematol, its a one dose application but you do have to do a massive water change after the application. It can then be used again (from memory here) after a week. It is good stuff it cleared the outbreak I had.
 
Once you have treated with sera nematol (or if you choose levamisole hydrochloride) treat (after a few days as per manufacturers instructions) with esha 2000 to clear up any bacterial infections left by worms rotting in the gut, and feed peas to help the fish pass the dead worms.
 
Hope this helps.

 

[shrimply]

Thanks Star, I'm not very happy about this haha.
 
Stupid worms, I think it probably is camallanus worms.  The flubenzadole doesn't seem to be shifting them though, although some reports say it does work, so I'll have to order something else.  The Nematol isn't cheap (not that there is a lot of difference between that and the bird wormer I'd have to use to get levamisole hydrochloride) I only need to treat around 15l haha, not 400 or so.  I'll have a think about what to go for and see if anyone else has any thoughts.
 
All I'm getting from reading reviews is that they are a total nightmare to get rid of
 
The fish really are stunning too

 

[star4]

You could try Kusuri wormer, I know it contains flubenzadole, but its cheaper than sera nematol. It is expensive stuff, I only had to treat 180l and cost me more than the fish were worth, but you gotta do what you gotta do

 

[shrimply]

Thanks star, I've ordered the bird de-wormer with levamisole, the bottle cost under £10, it's 100ml and I'll need like 3ml.  But as you say, the things we do for our fish.  By the time its arrived the flubenzadole should have got rid of the possible ich, and anything that isn't camallanus worms I think.
 
Shall see how it goes, levamisole combined with close to 100% water changes seems to be the way to go though, and the bare bottom tank means I can pipette out any dead worms as I see them too, which should help.  Fingers crossed.

 

[star4]

Another thing you can try, but its not a guaranteed cure, more preventative is this food...
 
http/www.ebay.co.uk/itm/50-Grams-DISCUS-SPECIAL-GRAN-WITH-GARLIC-SPIRULINA-/120794675977?pt=UK_Pet_Supplies_Fish&hash=item1c1fec7b09
 
I feed this now regularly to all my fish I was told internal parasites do not like garlic (plus garlic having antibacterial properties etc...)

 

[shrimply]

Well I've failed, and feeling a bit down about the whole thing.
 
I followed the instructrustions for using the Levamisole, the solution is 80mg/ml, so I added 3ml to the 15l of tap water, which should be slightly over the 13ppm reccommended dose if my calculations were correct.  I did a 100% water change before using it, the water is around 24C.  The only thing that may be wrong is I read that the pH should be below 7, while mine is ~8 but other places say this doesn't matter.
 
Initially after adding it, I was skeptical as an hour or so later there was no evidence of worms being excreted.  Two or 3 hours after treatment though I found a bunch of 4 or 5, and an additional single worm.  I was expecting much more so began to fear that things hadn't worked.  But there was no visible red worms at the anus of any of them, and the anal swelling went down so I kept my fingers crossed. 
 
But today, 48 hours after the medication I see red worms at the anus of several of the fish

 
So now I really don't know what to do.  Everything I've read said that this stuff should be very effective, I've not really read any reports of it not working.  It's vagually possible I guess that the worms I'm seeing are paralysed and the fish are just struggling to pass them, but it seems unlikely.  The fish haven't coped well with the medication though, they are very dull in colour and skittish and generally look unhappy.  They also aren't eating which won't be helping if there is worms that still need to be expelled I guess.
 
Really not sure what to do now

Anyone got any thoughts.

 

[star4]

Have you done a water change since the treatment? if not do a large one see if this perks the fish back up again, keep the lights out also to miniminse stress. Soak a couple of peas in garlic juice (or just slice some garlic up and put it in some water with de-shelled peas) and see if they will eat, the peas will help them pass the worms, the garlic should stimulate their appetite. If the worms are still alive though this will not have any affect and you would have to look into another treatment. I know Sera Nematol is really expensive but I have used it and it worked.

 

[shrimply]

Hi Star,
 
The treatment is supposed to stay in for 3 days, and then another 100% water change, and that's due tommorow.  There are no lights in the tank and the sides and back are blacked out, only a light on when I'm checking on them.  I've been trying them on peas and little bits of other more appealing food but it just gets ignored.  Hopefully after the water change...
 
I couldn't see any worms visible when I checked an hour or so ago, so I don't really know.  I haven't found any more floating around in the tank either though.  So i really don't know what to do or think.
 
I this fails I will have to try the Nematol, but it seems to get mixed results.  I'm sure someone has it in for me haha.  Can't I just get healthy fish for a change.

 

[shrimply]

So this morning one fish has a lot of worms hanging out its anus, it's really difficult to get a good view of whats going on, but I'm hoping this is them being passed out the medication having been doing its job, rather than the less pleasant alternative that I've not managed to kill any of the nasty little things.
 
If the fish are still passing worms though, then should I be avoiding doing a water change for another day or so to make sure the medication has worked properly and that I'm removing all the dead worms with the water change.  I'm not sure how important the water change is, everywhere seems to agree that Levamisole paralyses the worms, there is confliciting infomration about whether or not this kills them.
 
I'd love opinions, although I appreciate that it's not easy to give.
 
The fish seem a bit more colourful and perhaps less skittish this morning, so I'm guessing the levels of medication are falling, I don't know what it's half life is.