New Filter Causing Problems?

[Ruhiel]

My filter died, and I had to do an emergency replacement. I went from a Marineland 350 HoB to a Cascade 700. Installed everything tonight, and cut up the filter pads from the Penguin to seed the new filter. I put them in the bottom media basket. Hooked everything up, and two hours later, I have a dead Oto. The Cory's are acting really odd too - hanging out in one spot. One was acting like it didn't know where it was, alternating swimming in circles and just sitting in one spot. Very un-cory like behaviour. The tank has been up for 4-5 months, cycled, and stable. They didn't eat their Repashy Soilent Green when I fed them, which is VERY weird. They go ham over it usually, but tonight they didn't seem interested. Could something be wrong with the filter? The filter flow is much higher than the HoB was, and I added a powerhead at the far end of the tank where there wasn't much flow. When things started getting questionable, I turned it off. I left the airstone on, and the filter is on (of course).

Tank size: 40L
pH: 7.5
ammonia: 0
nitrite: 0
nitrate: .20 (before 25% water change)
kH: -
gH: - 
tank temp: 72

Fish Symptoms (include full description including lesion, color, location, fish behavior): One spontaneously dead Oto, listless Emerald Corys.

Volume and Frequency of water changes: Weekly, 25-30%. Did one tonight after installing the filter. 

Chemical Additives or Media in your tank: Flourish, Excel, Prime

Tank inhabitants: 6 Emerald Corys, a handful of feeder guppies, two cardinal rasboras, 9 Golden Tetras, 2 Otocinclus, 4 shrimp, a nerite snail

Recent additions to your tank (living or decoration): New filter and powerhead, installed tonight. Otherwise, nothing. In the media basket is media from the old filter (cut up blue floss), white filter foam, black coarse pad, Purigen from the old tank, and new ceramic noodles in the bottom basket.

Exposure to chemicals: Prime dosed this evening after the water change, and a dose of Flourish.

 

[Ruhiel]

This morning, I took out one of the white floss pads and replaced it with a new packet of carbon, in case it might be something that I can remove from the water. The only other thought I have is that when I made the food for them, I used the measuring spoon to stir the powder in. I usually use a table spoon. Could there have been some plastic toxicity? I didn't even think at the time about the possibility. I was in a hurry, and they hadn't been fed all day. No more deaths, but they're still not terribly lively.

 

[Byron]

This was unlikely to have been a "cycling" issue, as it would not have acted so quickly, plus you are using Prime which detoxifies ammonia and nitrite, and your readings show zero anyway.  So that suggests something on the filter housing perhaps?  Was it thoroughly washed in very hot water and completely dry before using?  It is more likely a toxin from the new filter than a spoon with this strong a reaction.
 
Whatever is the cause, there is no doubt that something in the water is harming the fish.  I would do some major water changes, around 70% of the tank volume, using just Prime for the volume changed.  Once a day for a couple days until the fish are "normal" again.
 
Byron.

 

[Ch4rlie]

Hmm, sounds quite unusual.
 
As byron says, I don't think this is a cycle / spikes issue as your reading suggests all parameters are at good levels.
 
Just wondering if the new ceramic noodle media that came with the new filter was thoroughly rinsed out, as there may have gathered dust and unknown debris from the time it was sitting up on the shelves at stores.
 
Just the fact this happened so fast makes me wonder.
 
Could you or anyone in your household used air freshener or glass clear/ detergent near the tank or perhaps you may have mistakenly used detergent when cleaning the filter before adding to your tank, though i think the reactions may be different if this was the cause. Probably grasping at straws here, but want to eliminate most possibilities.
 
One last query, did you add prime and flourish at the same time?
 
Something in back of my mind is vaguely remembering that adding these two together at same time can cause an adverse affect on stocking.

 

[Byron]

One last query, did you add prime and flourish at the same time?
 
Something in back of my mind is vaguely remembering that adding these two together at same time can cause an adverse affect on stocking.

 
This is a good point, and I recall hearing something similar though in my case I believe it was from a microbiologist and about Prime with certain medications.
 
I have had correspondence with Seachem about Prime and Flourish, but my enquiry was concerned with the effect of Prime detoxifying heavy metals, some of which are essential plant nutrients, since these are present in Flourish Comprehensive.  Seachem's suggestion was that yes, Prime would detoxify the heavy metal nutrients, and Flourish Comp should be dosed 24-48 hours after Prime, as Prime becomes ineffective after that period.  Nothing was said about any reactions aside from this, and I would have expected them to mention it if there is something.  But that is not absolute.
 
The Excel is another problem though, as this contains glutaraldehyde and this highly toxic chemical may well interact with something in Prime.  I personally would not add this to my aquaria containing fish, but I know there are others who do not share this concern.
 
Byron.

 

[Ruhiel]

Things seem to have calmed down a bit thankfully. I've narrowed it to two causes - the filter media not being rinsed well enough ( the water had a vague white cast to it ) OR the mold that I used to make their food. I usually use a glass ramekin to mold it, but it was dirty and I used what I thought was a heat safe plastic container. Water is still fine, and has cleared up. 
 
Good point about the Prime / Flourish interaction though. I think waiting 24-48 to dose the Flourish is an excellent idea, and I'll be doing that from here out. I add the Excel a couple of times a week and turn the bubbler on 10 minutes or so after.
 
Heavily leaning towards the ceramic biomedia. Things were kind of rushed, and I really think I could have rinsed it a lot better in hindsight. I took a short video when I noticed what was going on, and looking at that compared to now, it could definitely be ceramic dust in the water.
 
http/youtu.be/C5LYaX6B300

 

[Byron]

I would suggest you discontinue the Excel.  First, as a liquid carbon supplement, it must be dosed daily or it will provide no benefit to the plants, and actually may harm them (won't go into the issue of fluctuating carbon now).  So you are not really getting any benefit.  Second is the fact that this is glutaraldehyde which is a highly toxic disinfectant.  Now I know many use Excel (or the similar API CO2 Booster which is the same stuff) and their fish appear fine.  But I am of the view that such dangerous chemicals have no place in a fish tank especially when they are not needed to begin with.  Some plants will melt with Excel used according to directions, and if overdosed it can kill not only plants but bacteria and fish.  It is used in hospitals to disinfect instruments, along with being used in anti-freeze and embalming fluid, so it is pretty powerful.  The product data sheet carries warnings to humans.  Just my opinion for what it may be worth.
 
Byron.

 

[Ruhiel]

I actually won't need the Excel after next week. I'm getting my Finnex Planted Plus light, and can then start my real CO2 setup. Interesting to know about that though, I'll have to research that more. 
I did note on the bottle that it says not to get it on your skin, and was wondering why. 

 

[Byron]

The smell if inhaled is dangerous too, it apparently can cause respiratory issues; and yes, some have irritated their skin.  Now that I've seen your video, I was going to comment on the light, but as you have another coming, I won't, as presumably the new light will be better.
 
Byron.

 

[Ruhiel]

Yes! hahah I did a long video about all the horrendous mistakes I've made with that tank, and there have been many. I've since educated myself lol. I have one of these coming early this week. After that, I can start really correcting the plant issues.

Unless of course someone has a better suggestion for a light. I'm 100% open to suggestions.