New Discus Not Eating

[mark4785]

Several days ago I posted in Tropical Discussions about how 1 of 3 recently added Discus had not been eating at all. Approx 10 days later it is still not eating any types of food including live brineshrimp, blood worm, BCUK Discus Food mix, pellets, crisps or flakes. It has consistently hidden itself next to the internal filtration pipe or heater; it acts as though it is completely frozen in that it is barely moving its fins. On occasion I have put my hand near the glass just to check its not dead and it darts away.

It is very colourful; there are no nips to the fins or any other signs of disease.

The main tank it was in has an ammonia and nitrite reading of 0 ppm, nitrate is 15 ppm (it is dosed for the plants) and a pH of 6.5. Temperature is 28.5 degrees C exactly.

Just now I have moved the fish to a separate tank where I am slowly raising the temperature to 34 C to try to stimulate it to eat. I’m also slowly adding aquarium salt to de-stress it.

Does anybody have any ideas of what the problem might be? I suspect an internal bacterial infection that would normally produce white poo IF it actually had anything to excrete in the first place.

 

[mark4785]

Additionally, if this transpires to be an internal bacterial infection, would it be safe to use salt and metronidazole at the same time?

 

[mark4785]

Could a Moderator please move this to emergencies?

 

[Colin_T]

picture and video of the fish and tank it's in?

Yes you can use salt and metronidazole together but you need to increase aeration/ surface turbulence when you use salt, medication or increase the temperature.
Salt isn't normally need for discus unless they have an external protozoan infection or a mild fungal or bacterial infection. Heat (34C) will kill pretty much any external protozoan infection.

Have you tried feeding the fish live food like adult brineshrimp, daphnia or mozzie larvae?
What are you feeding the fish?

Stop adding plant fertiliser and CO2 for a couple of weeks and see if that helps. You don't want to be using CO2 when you crank the temp up or use salt or medications because the fish can suffocate due to the low oxygen levels.

Find out what the pH and GH is at the place you got the fish from. It might have been kept in water with a higher pH.

Make sure none of the other fishes are bullying it.

Put some dither fish in the tank to show it what food is and to encourage it out into the open.

Have the tank in a place where lots of people move around it. This stops the fish becoming shy and reclusive.

 

[mark4785]

picture and video of the fish and tank it's in?

Yes you can use salt and metronidazole together but you need to increase aeration/ surface turbulence when you use salt, medication or increase the temperature.
Salt isn't normally need for discus unless they have an external protozoan infection or a mild fungal or bacterial infection. Heat (34C) will kill pretty much any external protozoan infection.

Have you tried feeding the fish live food like adult brineshrimp, daphnia or mozzie larvae?
What are you feeding the fish?

Stop adding plant fertiliser and CO2 for a couple of weeks and see if that helps. You don't want to be using CO2 when you crank the temp up or use salt or medications because the fish can suffocate due to the low oxygen levels.

Find out what the pH and GH is at the place you got the fish from. It might have been kept in water with a higher pH.

Make sure none of the other fishes are bullying it.

Put some dither fish in the tank to show it what food is and to encourage it out into the open.

Have the tank in a place where lots of people move around it. This stops the fish becoming shy and reclusive.

The fish has been offered live adult brineshrimp and any other food you could think of and it shows no interest in eating. Other foods offered include frozen blood worm, BCUK Discus food, pellets, flakes and crisps.

The fish is in a separate 30 litre aquarium while I treat it so there are no ferts or c02 being added into that.

I will try to get a video shortly.

 

[mark4785]

Please find below a video of the fish.

 

[Colin_T]

It's really stressed out. Put a picture on the back of the tank and some dark gravel on the bottom. Add some plastic plants and get an airstone in the tank. The fish was breathing really heavily.

Externally it looks fine from a disease perspective.

 

[mark4785]

It's really stressed out. Put a picture on the back of the tank and some dark gravel on the bottom. Add some plastic plants and get an airstone in the tank. The fish was breathing really heavily.

Externally it looks fine from a disease perspective.

He/she has not been in the tank very long which is why it is breathing heavily. I’ll see if I can add some plastic plants.

 

[Essjay]

Could a Moderator please move this to emergencies?

Done.

 

[mark4785]

Done.

Thank you

 

[mark4785]

Just an update to say that the fish eat 4 bloodworms for the 1st time ever. It has excreted white poo so I’ve added metronidazole on top of salt treatment and 34 degrees C heat. I think the heat has stimulated it to eat.

Will keep feeding it in this environment for another 3-4 days then put it back in the main aquarium.

I have noticed the fish in my main tank are all scratching themselves every now and again so it looks like the recent additions to the tank (3x 5cm Discus) came with body flukes. I’m treating for this also in the main tank.

 

[Lajos_Detari]

Just an update to say that the fish eat 4 bloodworms for the 1st time ever. It has excreted white poo so I’ve added metronidazole on top of salt treatment and 34 degrees C heat. I think the heat has stimulated it to eat.

Will keep feeding it in this environment for another 3-4 days then put it back in the main aquarium.

I have noticed the fish in my main tank are all scratching themselves every now and again so it looks like the recent additions to the tank (3x 5cm Discus) came with body flukes. I’m treating for this also in the main tank.

Actually, two very common infection for Discus are:
1)Internal infection by worms or protozoa or bacteria.
2)Skin flukes or gill flukes.

I highly suspect that these two infections come from the breeder farms or fish stores after reading/watching many internet resources, books and videos.

Metronidazole is useful to treat internal protozoa and probably internal bacteria(not too sure).
You may have to treat it for a few weeks because the protozoa eggs can't be killed by Metronidazole.
You will have to treat your main tank also as the fish might had released the protozoa eggs before you moved it to another tank. This will infect your other Discus.

For skin flukes or gill flukes, you can use Wormer Plus (Flubendazole).
Most people used Praziquantel to treat skin/gill flukes but I find that it's not effective and the flukes will return after 1-2 months when I used Praziquantel.
By the way, when you increased the temperature, it may also kill the flukes as Colin mentioned.

Both skin flukes and gill flukes may show similar symptoms. Gill flukes will infect the fish gills and slowly kill them.
At late stages, the fish will breathe very fast and it will die.
The gill flukes + bacteria(secondary infection)will damage the fish gills and caused them to be unable to breathe.
By the way, treatment for gill flukes may take longer time, probably 1.5 months to 2 months.
I treated my Discus for 3 months before I succeeded in killing all the gill fluke.
I dosed the Wormer Plus once every 3-4 days or twice a week for the first 2-3 weeks. (for severe infection).
Then, I dosed it about once a week for the remaining weeks.
Wormer Plus can also kill internal worms which are very common among Discus which I believe due to the feeding of live food. Even beef heart is not safe.

Wormer Plus((Flubendazole)

2 x 2,000 gallon pack Cloverleaf wormer plus, aquatic fish wormer, fluke and parasite killer.

Cloverleaf Absolute Aquarium Wormer Plus Aquarium Anti-Worm Medication. Full Pro-Strength Formula that offers true value for money with no gimmicks or weakened ‘fluffed out’ fillers. Meaning more of the active ingredient with the strength to work.

plymouthdiscus.com

Some useful info about Gill and Skin flukes:

SimplyDiscus.com: Gill and Skin Flukes by Ardan Huck

Flukes are a parasite. There are two main families of flukes affecting discus. Gyrodactylidea is a fluke which usually attacks the skin. Dactylogyridea family of Flukes is an egg laying fluke and live mainly on the gills.

www.simplydiscus.com

Lastly, I can recommend to you a list of high protein and fats food(pellets/ granules) to replace the livefood if you are interested.
Most live food may carry some parasites or bacteria with them.
As for bloodworms, some people are allergic to it and it can cause breathing problems.
I managed to switch to only pellets/granules for all my Discus without any live food.

 

[mark4785]

The sick Discus is eating bloodworm because thats all it will eat. As the food resembles a worm it seems even fish days away from death will eat it so this is purely why it is being offered. I don’t think I’m allergic to bloodworm though Im more often than not handling them with tweezers.

I have tried flubendazole during a gill fluke infestation many years ago and unfortunately it wasn’t effective at all. I’m treating the main tank with Waterlife Sterazin which is quick to eradicate flukes after 2 cycles of treatment.

The sick fish in the separate quarantine tank is not itching itself at all so I’m doing what I can purely to get it to eat. If it does develop body fluke symptoms I’ll switch the treatment for that tank to Sterazin. Like you said, the temperature probably killed the flukes in the quarantine tank if there were any.

 

[Barry Tetra]

When my discus have white poop I treat them with 75% daily wtaer changes, tablespoon of salt/5gal and 7mg/litre of Metronidazole.

Yep, the only thing they eat is bloodworms, the only thing that fish can eat even sick.

 

[Lajos_Detari]

The sick Discus is eating bloodworm because thats all it will eat. As the food resembles a worm it seems even fish days away from death will eat it so this is purely why it is being offered. I don’t think I’m allergic to bloodworm though Im more often than not handling them with tweezers.

I have tried flubendazole during a gill fluke infestation many years ago and unfortunately it wasn’t effective at all. I’m treating the main tank with Waterlife Sterazin which is quick to eradicate flukes after 2 cycles of treatment.

The sick fish in the separate quarantine tank is not itching itself at all so I’m doing what I can purely to get it to eat. If it does develop body fluke symptoms I’ll switch the treatment for that tank to Sterazin. Like you said, the temperature probably killed the flukes in the quarantine tank if there were any.

Yes, you can try Sterazin by Waterlife though most medications by Waterlife are mild.
In the past, I used Waterlife but I find tht they are only effective for mild infections.
I have lost count of how many bottles of Sterazin that I bought but still I couldn't get rid of the flukes.
I even wrote to Waterlife to ask for advice of the dosage.
If I am not wrong, Waterlife allowedd me to use a higher dosage than the normal but still no success.

It's weird that you mentioned that Flubendazole is not effective.
What is the dosage that you used?
I used Wormer plus that comes with a small spoon. One spoon can treat 136liter. I dosed it twice a week for the first few weeks. Then I dosed once a week for a total of 3 months straight.(continuously).

By the way, the flukes can develop resistance to the medications after a while if you don't kill all of them.

Some people will use Formalin or Potassium Permanganate(dip for a few hours).
But Potassium Permanganate dip can only kill the swimming flukes. It can't kill the flukes' eggs.
Formalin is powerful but its toxic and hard to find.
You can refer to the website that I sent earlier.

You can also treat with high salt (1 tablespoon for every 10 liter of water) though I am not sure about the effectiveness.
Also, you cannot treat too long with salt, probably up to 3 weeks. If I remember correctly, Colin mentioned that salt will damaged their kidney if you use it more than 4 weeks.