Neons vs Cardinal

[Socrates]

The number one fish on my son's fish list is Neon Tetra. (Or Cardinal, to him they're the same.)

I'm aware they are completely different

My question is this:

First question: This site (a respected one I think) claims Neons are "Easy" dificulty to care for and Cardinals are "moderate" difficulty. Is that true?
http/www.liveaquaria.com/product/scateg....d=21&pCatId=890

Second, there is a lot of talk around the intenet that modern neon stock is really really unhealthy.

So I'm left weighing one against the other trying to decide if I want to deal with a fish I may screw up the care for and a fish that may just drop dead and maybe poison my tank.

So any opinions would help.



If it matters, chemistry: PH about 7.75, KH=7, GH=6

 

[OscarCichlid]

i have never kept cardinals but i just bought some neons at my LFS and they are very healthy, and easy to care for. I dont know if that helps but i just wanted to let you know that a healthy neon isnt that hard to come by. As long as they are not bullied by other fish they really dont get that many diseases.

 

[Socrates]

So maybe the many reports on various boards about the diseased and weak genetic nature of modern neons is more of a greatly exaggerated rumor or pehnomenon than a real problem?

 

[snowyangel]

My neons have always been fine every since I bought them last year. Maybe it depends on their water conditions...

 

[Lateral Line]

Many Cardinals are wild caught. Wild caught's are always a little more difficult then tank/pond bred, but if they've been at the dealers for a while, then they should be aclimated to the local water, and be okay. That said, there are some people who just seem to be unable to keep Cardinals.

If you see wild Neons and superstore tank bred things, you'll appreciate the talk about poor stock. They are not necessarily diseased though.

Neither will take ammonia or nitrites, so make sure your tank is very well cycled before you introduce them. A common piece of advice you'll hear is to only add these species to a tank that has been running for at least 6 months - it is basically saying "well cycled".

 

[modernhamlet]

From what I've read, both Neons and Cardinals (especially Cardinals) prefer much more acidic pH water (6.0 - 7.0) than you've got right now. Can someone with experience keeping cardinals or neon speak to this?

 

[Tenko]

I've had cardinals for over a month now. Originally I bought 9. 6 were eaten by black widow tetras but I've replaced them. Apart from that I've had no problems with them at all.

Personally I think cardinals are a lot nicer to look at than neons. The major difference, apart from cardinals being a bit larger, is their red underside runs the entire length of their body.

As for water parameters, it depends where you get them from. If they are wild caught then try to match their natural conditions which is acidic soft water. If they are captive bread and have been at the lfs for ages, they will be used to the local tap water conditions.

I keep mine at a ph of 8.2. If I introduced live caught cardinals into that I doubt they'd last very long. As the local tap water ph is 8.2, the cardinals I bought are used to it from the time they spent at the lfs.

 

[Socrates]

Well I alreay bought some neons.

The LFS near me is pretty nice and has been there since I was a kid.

They tell me the pH in all their tanks is prety close to mine and they have a couple of show tanks with very happy healthy Neons and Cardinals.

My decision between the two was made by what was in stock. Got some very healthy looking little half inch Neons.

I wish I had heard anything about them not going in new tanks though. Since they went in this tank 10 minutes after the bio-spira!!! I had asked on the beginners board if anyone had a suggestion about which fish on my list to get first and not one response after a few dozen views...

Oh well. Hopefully they will be OK. They sure look happy in there.

 

[Lateral Line]

Fiddling with your pH is a risky business if you do not understand chemistry. You can de-stabilise your water and get large, and lethal pH swings. As long as your lfs is in the same water supply area as you, you are better off, leaving the water alone, that way you are not shocking the fish when you bring them home.

Many fish have a "preferred" chemistry, but most are quite adaptable to the ambient conditions, they may not breed, but they will live normally.

Wild caught fish are always a little more sensitive then farmed. The farming process kills off the more sensitive individuals thus only the "tougher" ones get to breed, and the race as a whole, toughens up.

Generally if fish have been in your lfs for a couple of weeks, and still look healthy, they're fine.

 

[BigSteve]

Just wanted to say "hi" Socrates. I grew up in the San Fernando
Valley (Van Nuys) and as a kid used to patronize West Coast Aquarium on
Van Nuys Blvd. Now I'm in beautiful (?) Milwaukee. Actually it's not so bad.
Just different... especially weather.
I believe as a rule that neons are considered a bit hardier than cardinals.
I've always kept neons, and if water is good and there are no big fish or bullies,
they do OK.

 

[Socrates]

Fiddling with your pH is a risky business if you do not understand chemistry. You can de-stabilise your water and get large, and lethal pH swings. As long as your lfs is in the same water supply area as you, you are better off, leaving the water alone, that way you are not shocking the fish when you bring them home.

Many fish have a "preferred" chemistry, but most are quite adaptable to the ambient conditions, they may not breed, but they will live normally.

Wild caught fish are always a little more sensitive then farmed. The farming process kills off the more sensitive individuals thus only the "tougher" ones get to breed, and the race as a whole, toughens up.

Generally if fish have been in your lfs for a couple of weeks, and still look healthy, they're fine.

Thanks.

Yeah, the majority of experienced people seem to be of the opinion that most fish will adapt to the pH, and most sites that sell stuff and have info seem to want you to start fiddiling... good for sales maybe.

Anyway. I've got 6 Neons and 6 Rummynoses in there and so far so good. They all look happy and settled in.

Do Neons "sleep" at night. Because very late last night 4 of the six were really lethargic and sad looking. Either they were resting or the stress got to them. Anyway they are doing great today.

 

[FishNiX]

i purchased 4 cardinals a month or two ago and i lost two in the first week, the tank was mature, well cycled and very stable...i climatized them VERY slowly over quite a long time (float for 20 minutes, then dump a cup of tank water in every 10 5 or 6 times, pouring a little out as necessary). they may have been stressed by the angel in the tank, but it wouldnt make sense since i bought 6 neons a few weeks later and all of them have survived just fine (and the cardinals were quite a bit bigger).

to top it all off, cardinals are much more expensive... i think the neons i got (which are very nice neons, not your average petco/petsmart fish) were 6 for $12 and the cardinals were 4 for $18. the cardinals were wild caught but lived at the fish store for a while.

cheers!

 

[ihavefishwantmore]

Well you seem to be getting a lot of good advice. Again don't mess with ph( for more experianced aquarists). I find cardinals more attractive( have a school of 30 in my discus tank). Remember that small fish don't usually live as long as big fish so you may loose a few as the months go by( depending on thier current age). Also when fish are not feeling well it often affects thier feeding, and it does not take a small fish long to die if he is not eating well. They like the security of a large group ( plus they look cool) so buy a bunch if you can.

 

[noelberg]

My local lfs' seem to agree that neons are hardier overall. But what is the average life span of a neon? And would they be ok with black skirts?

 

[MasterDrummer]

Fiddling with your pH is a risky business if you do not understand chemistry. You can de-stabilise your water and get large, and lethal pH swings. As long as your lfs is in the same water supply area as you, you are better off, leaving the water alone, that way you are not shocking the fish when you bring them home.

Many fish have a "preferred" chemistry, but most are quite adaptable to the ambient conditions, they may not breed, but they will live normally.

Wild caught fish are always a little more sensitive then farmed. The farming process kills off the more sensitive individuals thus only the "tougher" ones get to breed, and the race as a whole, toughens up.

Generally if fish have been in your lfs for a couple of weeks, and still look healthy, they're fine.

Thanks.

Yeah, the majority of experienced people seem to be of the opinion that most fish will adapt to the pH, and most sites that sell stuff and have info seem to want you to start fiddiling... good for sales maybe.

Anyway. I've got 6 Neons and 6 Rummynoses in there and so far so good. They all look happy and settled in.

Do Neons "sleep" at night. Because very late last night 4 of the six were really lethargic and sad looking. Either they were resting or the stress got to them. Anyway they are doing great today.

Yeah, Im pretty sure they sleep because my neons looked like that last night and now they're doing great.