Neons or cardinals?

[guppymonkey]

I was thinking about getting a school of neons or cardinals but I have very hard water and I have heard that neither of these fish do well under these conditions. I have seen them in the LFS but I figured it was better to ask here than to take their advice. ("Sure you can get 30 neons in a five gallon tank, they could live for years in a bucket!") Cardinals are a little more hardy (at least I heard they are) but I personally would prefer neons. Could they live in really hard water or should I choose something that is better suited to the water conditions?

 

[EddieW]

I have a shoal of cardinals and I live in a hard water area of London. THey all seem to be doing well and are always lively. However I have read that the hard water gradually builds up in their kidneys and arteries (or the fishie equivalent) and reduces their life span.

How hard is your water?

Eddie

 

[FanOFish]

Cardinal tetras require I think it is High PH levels. I'm really not sure if it's high or low but at one of the LFS in my area they will not even sell them to you without you bringing in a water sample from your tank.

 

[EddieW]

Here's the profile from http/www.fishprofiles.com

Paracheirodon axelrodi
Common Names: Cardinal Tetra
Synonyms: Cheirodon axelrodi
Family: Characidae
Origin: Found in slow moving waters in Venezuela, Colombia and Brazil, South America.
Main Ecosystem: River
Temperament: Peaceful. It is imperative that the Cardinal Tetra be kept in schools. Highly recommended for comunity tanks.
Diet: Carnivore
Care: Feed with flakes. Cardinal Tetras should be kept in tanks either with floating plants or dimly lit. Use soft water only.
pH: 4.0 - 6.0
Temperature: 23°C - 27°C (73°F - 81°F)
Hardness: 5.0°dH - 12.0°dH
Potential Size: 3cm (1.2")
Water Region: Middle
Activity: Diurnal
Breeding: Use an optimal pH of 5.8, temperature 24°C. The eggs are laid on a perlon mat in the evening. Remove the adults after spawning occurs. Cover the tank to stop the growth of fungus. The fry should hatch after 24 hours. Feed with fry food.
Gender: Females are a little larger and have larger stomachs. A female is pictured above.
LifeSpan: 10 years
Comments: One of the most beautiful aquarium fish, the Cardinal Tetra comes close to the top of the list for the most popular fish of all time. Sometimes, but not often, confused with the Neon Tetra.


FanOFish - that sounds like a very responsible LFS, maybe you should give them a plug on here......


Cheers, Eddie

 

[Alien Anna]

Cardinals and neons can be acclimatised to hard, alkaline water. It's entirely up to you which species you prefer.

 

[guppymonkey]

I am going to the pet store tonight (if I can talk my girlfriend into going!). I either want to get neons, cardinals or I was thinking about getting some hatchet fish. I think they seem like an interesting fish (Wee! They fly!). Thanks for all the advice everyone.

I didn't know that cardinals needed such a low pH. I am going to have to ask my LFS where they get their fish from so I can see if they are locally bred and will be acclimated to our water conditions.

 

[Cian McLiam]

Hi,
Hatchet fish are mostly difficult to keep and feed well, I would be sure to find out all I can about them before jumping in head first!!

Just a thought,

Ken

 

[DizBjOhN104]

hmm to me and in my opinion i would say get neon tetras because they look better for some reason

 

[guppymonkey]

Well I ended up getting neons because they didn't have marbled hatchetfish. I have read a lot about hatchetfish so I am pretty sure I could take care of them. The neons they had were called "Jumbo Neons". They didn't list a scientific name though. Are cardinals larger than neons? Could they have mislabelled one as the other?

 

[joshua]

Well I ended up getting neons because they didn't have marbled hatchetfish. I have read a lot about hatchetfish so I am pretty sure I could take care of them. The neons they had were called "Jumbo Neons". They didn't list a scientific name though. Are cardinals larger than neons? Could they have mislabelled one as the other?

i doubt so as cardinals have a full length red stripe while the neon only has it halfway

 

[colin5861]

I have a shoal of cardinals in a hard water area of London and they seem fine. I didnt know about build up in their liver though.

I bought them from my LFS who never asked me about water conditions at all. In fact I did a PH test on his water and it is higher than mine ( mine is 7.5 but I have bog wood in the tank)

I do not have KH or GH test kits

Anna - how long do they take to aclimatise ?

Colin

 

[Alien Anna]

I have a shoal of cardinals in a hard water area of London and they seem fine. I didnt know about build up in their liver though.

Cardinals live at pH 5 in the wild, but it's practically impossible to keep them at such a low pH in captivity and would drastically reduce the choice of tank-mates. The majority of cardinals in captivity are kept at much higher pH's between 6.5 and 7.5. I have cardinals over 6 years old who have never been at a pH less than pH 6.8, and for much of their life they've had a pH of around 8.

I bought them from my LFS who never asked me about water conditions at all. In fact I did a PH test on his water and it is higher than mine ( mine is 7.5 but I have bog wood in the tank)

Once cardinals have been acclimated, pH isn't much of an issue. Still, they tend to have better colour at lower pH's so well-done adding the bogwood. You will probably find the pH dropping a little further over the next few months as the bogwood leaches acid into the tank.

I do not have KH or GH test kits

Ask your LFS if they'll sell you one of those dip-stick tests for a rough GH and KH value. But there isn't much you can do about it if its high, unless you want to go the RO water route.

Anna - how long do they take to aclimatise ?

I've heard about 6 weeks, but most good LFS's acclimatise cardinals before you buy them. Ask them how long they've had the cardinals in the shop and don't buy cardinals that have been imported within 6 weeks.

 

[guppymonkey]

I checked my "Jumbo Neons". They are indeed neons and not cardinals, the red line on the bottom only runs halfway. Out of the six I got last night one seems to have disappeared. It seemed to be the antisocial one out of the bunch last night. It wouldn't school with the other ones, seemed a bit smaller and looked like it had a tail deformity. Now I can't find it, alive or dead. In a few days I will prolly go get another three neons so that it will look a little bit like a school.

 

[platypus]

Neons get eaten pretty quickly so if your sick one died overnight it could well have been munched by the morning. Having said that when I first got my neons one disappeared for about a week and then turned up happy as larry .

Good luck with yours - one other thing I learnt the hard way with these fish is that they really don't like high temperatures - so make sure yours is not much higher than 82ºF or you may notice them breathing heavily.

BTW I think Jumbo just means they're a bit older and therefore bigger - I have seen these in my LFS also.

 

[guppymonkey]

BTW I think Jumbo just means they're a bit older and therefore bigger - I have seen these in my LFS also.

Well one of them is larger than the others. I think its the head honcho! It might be the female? I think the females are larger and plumper? I will go check the tank again in a few. So far they seem to be acclimating well, last night they all went off on their own to check out the tank but now they swim together.