Neons - just losing the will to live?

[ajhainey]

I've got a problem with the neons in my tank - they keep dieing! I've tried a few things but I thoughts I'd post and see if anyone has any advice or if they are just doomed...

Tank: 180 litre hagen. 2-3months old - cycled. Ammonia 0, Nitrite 0, Nitrate ~10ppm (read about 2 last night but I think that was user error). Temp 27C (80F). P.h 7.8-8.0. Contains blackwater extract (Kent) and I use aquasafe tap water conditioner.
It's mixed plastic/real planted (aprox 10 real plants), has three 'caves' and a piece of bogwood. Fluval 4 plus filter, bubble wall (occasional use), 2*lights on 10 hours a day (timer).

Fish: see sig.

Background: The original set of neons (5) came out of a friends mixed goldfish/tropical (no heater) tank when whitespot broke out and the lfs threw a bit of a fit about having them in an unheated tank. I bought the hagen for them and took the gamble that cycling in a new tropical tank was better than living in an unheated one. They were treated with whitespotPlus and all except one made a recovery, althought they were often a bit pale and distressed looking.

The tank was taking a long time to even start to cycle and I though the neons might be lonely=stressed so I added another 3 neons (different store) and 3 guppies. Cycle kicked off, went relatively smoothly (bit of water changing to combat a high nitrite spike but never over 2ppm) and took about 3 weeks.

I recently went on holiday and when I came back (sunday before last) one of the neons had serious looking ich so we started whitespot plus again, which to be honest didn't seem to do anything at all, but I persisted. Everything seemed to be ticking along, and the neon seemed to be recovering but in the last 7 days I've lost 3 neons which is odd as only one originally appeared to have succumbed to ICH - the other fish seem fine, except this morning 1 guppy who is flashing and appears to have 2 or 3 spots near his fin. Of the four remaining neons, who looked ok yesterday, one is now hiding under filter and looking very washed out, which I'm taking as a bad sign...

I treated with whitespot plus on the Wed, Sunday and again yesterday (every 4 days as per instructions) with a 30litre change before each addition (no carbon in filter). I also added the salt on Sunday - betting a two pronged approach might be more sucessful in killing off the ich. Plus it seemed to be selling itself as a general condition improver so I thought it might help with the general level of stress.

The only other thing I did was add two new caves on Sunday. Thought I might as well while I was trying to locate dead tetra no1...could that have stressed them out?

Any suggestions for better whitespot treatment? A more tetra friendly one? Is it just that the strain of cycling is now telling on them and they are doomed? Or is my p.h just way too high?

Thoughts/suggestions welcome...Sorry its so long!

aj xx

 

[appleblossom]

looking 'washed out'???
as in their colour is fading out even with the lights on etc...

you might want to read up on neon tetra disease

 

[gadazobe]

Despite what a lot of people think, neons are not easy fish to keep, in fact they're very delicate. They need slightly acidic water and a mature, well planted tank. They won't thrive unless they have what they require - also your ph is too high for them.

From what I understand, you cycled your tank with them - you're lucky that they've lived as long as they have. Cycling with fish isn't really recommended, but neons definitely are not suitable fish to cycle with. The ammonia and nitrite have along term effect on them and considerably shortens their lives.

 

[CBXGhosty]

I have never managed to keep neon's in my current tank, never had a problem before in my old ones, did not relise they needed 6.5 PH, the seemed ok in 7.00 but the mistake i made which is why about 40 of them were lost (over a year time scale) was that my angel fish was eating them, so i would advise NOT to ge that angel.

 

[ajhainey]

Thats what I thought, the cycling and the high p.h have done for them and they are doomed...I know they are delicate fish and not great for cycling (I do also know about fishless cyling) but there wasn't really another choice at the time - they were definately about to die where they were. I was hoping they might be ok when they seemed to recover at first but they are just not strong enough to cope with either ich or ich meds in the water conditions I have so as soon as they get stressed out, even a little bit, they are pretty much doomed...

I've lost another one since, so now only 3, of which two have ich. I'm not entertaining high hopes for their survival and, given my natural p.h. (I added the bogwood and blackwater to try and bring it down btw but it didn't shift by more than about .2), am unlikely to try them again so will not be replacing the lost ones.

Thanks for the responses...watch my sig for details on their survival rate if you are interested.....

aj xx

 

[MrMashashin]

Neons I believe are one of the hardest fish to keep alive. I bought 4 neons when I just started this hobby about last year and only 1 lived. So I did a study. I bought 6 neons from the same store and 4-5 died withing the first week of having them. So if you buy neons your taking the chance of losing all of them eccept one or two. I would recamend Cardinals becuase they look the same, kinda, and they are easyer to keep alive. But if you can keep neons alive then boy they will spurt up to their full size withing a matter of weeks! (atleast mine did)