Neon's and Cardinal Dieing

[Sky042]

I can't figure it out. I've only had them a few days. and every few hours I go to check on the tank and there is a new dead neon or cardinal it's killing me to keep scooping up dead fish.

water is
PH 6.8
NH3/4 0
NO2 0
NO3 (Hard to read. on chart color is between 40 and 80 though closer to 40)

Last water change was today. As a sidenote when the neon's/cardinals were introduced the NO3(nitrate) was around 80 as a remnant of the fishless cycle. Could 24 hours of 80ppm nitrate be the death nail or are they just not very hardy fish anymore and the 60 mins the spent in the bag on the way home from the fish store have just stressed them out that badly?

Help I really don't want to lose anymore fish. Everyone else in the tank is acting normal. The danio's are swimming like normal the gouramis and bala's are fine. the neon's and cardinals seem to be pumping their gills rapidly but I don't know what's actually rapid for these fish it's been so long since I've kept them.

 

[Sky042]

additional information. Both the neons and the cardinals had only arrived at the pet store maybe 24 hours MAX prior to me buying them. So I'm not sure if it's possible that the 2 moves in 36 hours would be too much stress or not.

 

[Ruby Shark]

Hi Sky.

What size tank are they in and how many fish do you have in there? How many Neons and Cardinals did you add at the same time? Any signs of disease on the dead fish...and/or the ones(neons and cardinals) still remaining?

It sounds like they went through a lot before they got home. Maybe it's a combination of both?

I am very sorry.

 

[Sky042]

46G bow front.
12 neons
12 cardinals.
Though not on the same day. (it was post fishless cycle so there is plenty of biological support)
shares the tank with 2 dwarf gouramis. 5 danios. 3 bala's(2.5") 2 panda cories.

 

[Ruby Shark]

Ok I'm a little confused so bare with me. lol

In your second post you said that you brought them home roughly the day after they arrived to the store and in your last post you said that it wasn't in the same day. Did you bring some home one day and then some home the next?? 24 fish seems like a lot to add to a tank at once.

I was also thinking that because you brought them home so soon after they arrived at the store it is quite possible that they came to you sick. The LFS should have quarantined them...at least that's what my lfs does. Did you notice any signs of illness etc?

 

[tstenback]

Sky sorry to hear of your losses. To answer one of your questions...yes the nitrate level being high could have stressed both types of fish they are very prone to stress caused from nitrates and nitrites. They often do not die right away but stop eating and die over the next number of days. Also the multiple moves in a short period probably agravated the situation so that they were already in stress before they hit your tank. Dont let this sour your love for these fish. Just let the tank completely stabilize before adding them again. Good Luck

 

[Sky042]

Sky sorry to hear of your losses. To answer one of your questions...yes the nitrate level being high could have stressed both types of fish they are very prone to stress caused from nitrates and nitrites. They often do not die right away but stop eating and die over the next number of days. Also the multiple moves in a short period probably agravated the situation so that they were already in stress before they hit your tank. Dont let this sour your love for these fish. Just let the tank completely stabilize before adding them again. Good Luck

Nitrate levels have already dropped to 20ppm. What I discovered at least in the case of the neons is they're particularly fragile in this area. Today while getting replacements for the ones that died the girl netted 4 of them. By the time she brought them from the tank to the little desk where they pour them into the bag one of them died in that 20 foot long trip(in water) so they're extremely susceptible to stress apparently. she netted me another one and out of the 4 one of them died on the way home. And another died while being aclimated. So it's just too weak of a fish from that breeder. I may have to find a new source if I want to continue to keep these fish.

 

[Sky042]

The cardinals on the other hand I belive were over stressed due to many moves. Once I broke it down this would be a snapshot of roughly 56 hours of life for the cardinals

Tuesday: breeder recieved order and bagged 12 cardinals for overnight shipment.
Wednesday: After being jostled around for 24 hours by fed ex. Fish arrive at fish store get floated then acclimated to the new tanks at the LFS.
Thursday morning: I come in buy the 12 cardinals. They get netted then bagged then driven to my house. They get floated and acclimated to my tank and have to get used to a new environement yet again with a kinda fast current(since reduced)

So thats a lot of moving around in a short period of time.

 

[J_acon]

Your ammonia is high and u nitrate is too high for those fish. Delicate guys.

Do some water changes to bring down the nitrate.

 

[Sky042]

Your ammonia is high and u nitrate is too high for those fish. Delicate guys.

Do some water changes to bring down the nitrate.

I was pretty sure my NH3/4 levels of 0 were low enough

nitrate is 20ppm currently. since my tap water varies between 10 and 20 I'm not going to manage to get it any lower than that

 

[J_acon]

water is
PH 6.8
NH3/4 0
NO2 0
NO3 (Hard to read. on chart color is between 40 and 80 though closer to 40)

Sorry, hehe though u wrote 4.0 for ur NH3 and ur NO3 was between 40 - 80

 

[Sky042]

water is
PH 6.8
NH3/4 0
NO2 0
NO3 (Hard to read. on chart color is between 40 and 80 though closer to 40)

Sorry, hehe though u wrote 4.0 for ur NH3 and ur NO3 was between 40 - 80

yeah overnight the NO3 dropped to 20ppm. it weas near 80 for about 12 hours.

 

[Ruby Shark]

Like I said...probably a combination(high nitrate and moving stress) of both. How are the rest doing? I hope you are having better luck.

 

[Sky042]

Like I said...probably a combination(high nitrate and moving stress) of both. How are the rest doing? I hope you are having better luck.

Well it would seem that if I can keep them alive long enough to reach my tank they should be ok. But they're fragile little buggers. I guess I'll know in the morning how they're doing. But tonight I did see schools out and about throughout the tank even towards the front glass playing in the current. Which was a nice change from the hanging out in the corner they were doing.

 

[Lenna]

Did you say you just finished a fishless cycle? Neons are pretty delicate as far as water conditions go and should only really be added to an established tank (6 months). Let your tank run with more hardy fish for a few months before introducing more neons or cardinals.