Neon Tetra died!

[cpwright93]

Help, my nitrate levels have risen in my tank and one of my neons has died. I am following a basic tank set up method, substrate, soil, capped with sand, live plants and temperature of 82f. Any tips? My fish seem to be stressed at the moment are are swimming against the glass.

 

[10 Tanks]

Hello cp. Nitrate is at the end of the nitrogen cycle. So, unless the level reaches into the 80 ppm level, it really isn't going to affect the fish as much as the other forms of nitrogen like ammonia and nitrite. If you suspect pollutants are to blame, you should perform a bit larger than normal water change. Water changes are the basis of a healthy tank. You should be removing and replacing a least half the tank water every few days. If you're not, you need to gradually work up to it.

10 Tanks (Now 11)

 

[Byron]

Please post numbers for any water tests you do so members can see the issue (if any). Nitrate, not nitrite I trust.

The temperature is much too high for neon tetras long-term, they need it down around 74-76F (23-24C) and no warmer. Is the 82F due to summer heat, or is this the tank heater setting?

The neon that died, what were the symptoms leading to death, if any? Other members with better experience in disease issues may be able to advise if more data is provided.

 

[cpwright93]

 

[cpwright93]

I have a gold nugget pleco in the tank also which is why the temperature is slightly higher.

Please post numbers for any water tests you do so members can see the issue (if any). Nitrate, not nitrite I trust.

The temperature is much too high for neon tetras long-term, they need it down around 74-76F (23-24C) and no warmer. Is the 82F due to summer heat, or is this the tank heater setting?

The neon that died, what were the symptoms leading to death, if any? Other members with better experience in disease issues may be able to advise if more data is provided.

 

[Essjay]

Looking at that photo, both nitrite and nitrate are high, though with a nitrite of ~3 ppm I would expect more than one neon to have died.

Nitrate should be kept under 20 ppm for long term health, though in many areas tap water nitrate is above this level making it difficult to keep nitrate low by water changes.
Could you test your tap water, please, so we know what you are dealing with for water changes.


When selecting fish, their temperature requirement is one of the parameters to consider. We should aim to keep fish in a tank which all need the same temperature.

 

[Byron]

Agree. The neons will literally burn out this warm, because with fish the water temperature drives their metabolism. When it is too warm, they work harder and are stressed and become more susceptible to things. The pleco could be down around 77F, though as you can see there is no middle of the road here.

 

[Colin_T]

BASIC FIRST AID FOR FISH
Test the water for ammonia, nitrite, nitrate and pH.

Wipe the inside of the glass down with a clean fish sponge. This removes the biofilm on the glass and the biofilm will contain lots of harmful bacteria, fungus, protozoans and various other microscopic life forms.

Do a 75% water change and gravel clean the substrate every day for a week or until the problem is identified. The water changes and gravel cleaning will reduce the number of disease organisms in the water and provide a cleaner environment for the fish to recover in. It also removes a lot of the gunk and this means any medication can work on treating the fish instead of being wasted killing the pathogens in the gunk.
Make sure any new water is free of chlorine/ chloramine before it is added to the tank.

Clean the filter if it hasn't been done in the last 2 weeks. However, if the filter is less than 6 weeks old, do not clean it. Wash the filter materials/ media in a bucket of tank water and re-use the media. Tip the bucket of dirty water on the garden/ lawn. Cleaning the filter means less gunk and cleaner water with fewer pathogens so any medication (if needed) will work more effectively on the fish.

Increase surface turbulence/ aeration to maximise the dissolved oxygen in the water.

Post clear pictures and video of the fish so we can check them for diseases.

 

[cpwright93]

BASIC FIRST AID FOR FISH
Test the water for ammonia, nitrite, nitrate and pH.

Wipe the inside of the glass down with a clean fish sponge. This removes the biofilm on the glass and the biofilm will contain lots of harmful bacteria, fungus, protozoans and various other microscopic life forms.

Do a 75% water change and gravel clean the substrate every day for a week or until the problem is identified. The water changes and gravel cleaning will reduce the number of disease organisms in the water and provide a cleaner environment for the fish to recover in. It also removes a lot of the gunk and this means any medication can work on treating the fish instead of being wasted killing the pathogens in the gunk.
Make sure any new water is free of chlorine/ chloramine before it is added to the tank.

Clean the filter if it hasn't been done in the last 2 weeks. However, if the filter is less than 6 weeks old, do not clean it. Wash the filter materials/ media in a bucket of tank water and re-use the media. Tip the bucket of dirty water on the garden/ lawn. Cleaning the filter means less gunk and cleaner water with fewer pathogens so any medication (if needed) will work more effectively on the fish.

Increase surface turbulence/ aeration to maximise the dissolved oxygen in the water.

Post clear pictures and video of the fish so we can check them for diseases.

I’ve tested the water, completed a water change, not gravel to vaccume

Agree. The neons will literally burn out this warm, because with fish the water temperature drives their metabolism. When it is too warm, they work harder and are stressed and become more susceptible to things. The pleco could be down around 77F, though as you can see there is no middle of the road here.

Hi I was advised that tetra can be kept with pleco so am unsure what mix to have in the tank.

 

[Essjay]

Was it a fish store that advised you to keep neons with the plec? One of the most important lessons in fishkeeping is don't believe anything a fish store tells you. The majority of workers have been trained in how to sell things. Most either don't know or don't care about keeping fish. Always research for yourself. Seriously Fish is just about the best site for research as it is written by experts not just someone who thinks they know.
For example, SF says gold nugget plecs need 27 to 32 deg C (81 - 90 dec F) while neon tetras need 21 - 25 deg C (70 - 77 deg F) - in other words they're not compatible.

 

[Colin_T]

Do a big (75%) water change every day until the ammonia and nitrite are on 0ppm, and the nitrate is as close to 0ppm as possible. Nitrate needs to be kept under 20ppm at all times if possible.
Make sure any new water is free of chlorine/ chloramine before it's added to the tank.

 

[cpwright93]

Was it a fish store that advised you to keep neons with the plec? One of the most important lessons in fishkeeping is don't believe anything a fish store tells you. The majority of workers have been trained in how to sell things. Most either don't know or don't care about keeping fish. Always research for yourself. Seriously Fish is just about the best site for research as it is written by experts not just someone who thinks they know.
For example, SF says gold nugget plecs need 27 to 32 deg C (81 - 90 dec F) while neon tetras need 21 - 25 deg C (70 - 77 deg F) - in other words they're not compatible.

All very contradictory advice online, I have been following father fish who advises the majority of fish can live comfortably between 78-82, neon tetra at 75-80 and gold nugget pleco at 77-86. So my temperature doesn’t seem to be the issue reduced now to 79 to tie into the two. My nitrite levels have reduced today (may have been over feeding slightly) and the fish seem to be more active (bloodworms and one algae wafer for the pleco twice a week). Many different types of advice online but this isn’t the first time I’ve kept fish was just asking for some possible causes. Many sources also say - “Just remember that neon tetras are schooling fish and like to live in larger groups to remain calm and peaceful. They will make for awesome tank mates for the golden nugget pleco since they will almost never share the same living space.” I have mixed my substrate with soil and capped with sand, led’s are not too bright for the Java ferns or other plants and I have added leaves from a natural pond for micro organisms to grow. Surely I don’t even need to change the water if it’s healthy or clean the tank that often with a good filter and adequate heating? Any further comments would be appreciated as I’m always one for learning.

 

[Essjay]

Surely I don’t even need to change the water if it’s healthy or clean the tank that often with a good filter and adequate heating?

The filter removes bits floating in the water. The bacteria in the filter remove ammonia excreted by the fish. Nothing removes all the other things excreted and secreted by the fish. We do water changes to remove those things.
Fish, and plants where the tank is planted, remove minerals from the water. Water changes top up these minerals.

Even though the water looks clean, you can't see the things dissolved in it. If you dissolved a spoonful of salt in a glass of water it would look like pure water. It's the same with tank water.

 

[cpwright93]

The filter removes bits floating in the water. The bacteria in the filter remove ammonia excreted by the fish. Nothing removes all the other things excreted and secreted by the fish. We do water changes to remove those things.
Fish, and plants where the tank is planted, remove minerals from the water. Water changes top up these minerals.

Even though the water looks clean, you can't see the things dissolved in it. If you dissolved a spoonful of salt in a glass of water it would look like pure water. It's the same with tank water.

Surely a healthy tank has a lot to do with the biology though, and if water changes are needed that often the tank isn’t capabale of dealing with the waste that’s in it? Meaning the tank isn’t healthy to begin with. Water changes don’t happen in the wild and a tank is no different with the right set up, if the substrate is deep enough surely the waste will just been drawn down and broken down?

 

[Essjay]

Water changes do happen in the wild. Rivers and streams flow, bringing nice fresh water down from the mountains.

I'm not talking about solid waste, but stuff dissolved in the water. For example, when I worked in a hospital lab we tested urine for all sorts of things you couldn't see. Of the top of my head - creatinine, urea, Bence-Jones protein, glucose, 7 oxo and 7 oxogenic steroids, hydroxymethoxymandelic acid etc etc. Fish will excrete similar, if not the same, things. These build up in the water.
Fish communicate by secreting hormones - pheromones and allomones. These build up in the water.

Can I suggest you read this

Regular Partial Water Changes

Byron Hosking November, 2010 (rev April 2021) Nothing is more important when it comes to aquarium maintenance than regular partial water changes. The adage “an ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure” certainly applies here. One frequently reads of products that will reduce the need for...

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