My System No Dechlorinator

[Ch4rlie]

I would suggest those of you that have high levels of Chlorine or Chloramine in their water supply, change the source of your water.

That’s a fairly drastic way of doing things I would have thought.

And the only chemicals I add to my fish tank is dechlorinator and liquid ferts, and I am very careful about dosages so I only put in the minimum amounts I can get away with.

A bottle of dechlorinator for only costs a few pounds or dollars compared to buying bottled water every week or getting a RO system and getting that set up costs even more in the long run.

Not saying the money is more important than the livestocks lives, of course not, but what I currently do works and works well against chlorine and chloramine.

I agree 100% in an ideal world we would not add chemicals at all whatsoever as everything that is added the tank does adversely effect the livestocks health but sometimes it’s the lesser of the evils to just use one chemical and that’s dechlorinator rather than letting the livestock die a painful death from chlorine poisoning.

Chlorine Toxicity in Fish - Fish Vet

Chlorine toxicity in fish occurs most commonly when an owner leaves a hose running and walks away. Chlorine toxicity in fish has no treatment and is preventable.

cafishvet.com

 

[Guest14017]

Lol - he suggests that we change our water supply. As if that's super easy to do! I have high chloramines and high pH from the tap... can't just CHANGE MY WATER SUPPLY. I live here and can't just up and move because my tap water isn't perfect. I am able to avoid drinking it but of course the fish have to deal with it.

Dechlorinator simply isn't that harmful to fish and for people like me - the benefits outweigh the risks. And with the way you posted your method "this needs to be posted" and then the way you've defended it, it sort of DOES seem as if you are advocating/recommending your method moreso than just sharing it.

 

[itiwhetu]

Lol - he suggests that we change our water supply. As if that's super easy to do! I have high chloramines and high pH from the tap... can't just CHANGE MY WATER SUPPLY. I live here and can't just up and move because my tap water isn't perfect. I am able to avoid drinking it but of course the fish have to deal with it.

Dechlorinator simply isn't that harmful to fish and for people like me - the benefits outweigh the risks. And with the way you posted your method "this needs to be posted" and then the way you've defended it, it sort of DOES seem as if you are advocating/recommending your method moreso than just sharing it.

So you are happy to have your fish in something that you won't drink. How about you drink the dechlorinated water that you give the fish. Since it is harmless.

 

[Guest14017]

So you are happy to have your fish in something that you won't drink. How about you drink the dechlorinated water that you give the fish. Since it is harmless.

I give the dogs the tap water as well to drink.... I don't like the way it tastes so I don't drink it... but if I make ramen noodles... I use it because I won't notice the taste.

What point are you trying to make??

And I will drink water from my fish tank right after you do... I promise.

 

[itiwhetu]

I give the dogs the tap water as well to drink.... I don't like the way it tastes so I don't drink it... but if I make ramen noodles... I use it because I won't notice the taste.

What point are you trying to make??

And I will drink water from my fish tank right after you do... I promise.

"I am able to avoid drinking it but of course the fish have to deal with it".

I think this is very telling about what you think.

 

[Guest14017]

"I am able to avoid drinking it but of course the fish have to deal with it".

I think this is very telling about what you think.

Okay whatever you say lol. I still don't see what point you were trying to make. As far as your opinions on people who use dechlorinator... too bad. Won't stop us from using it when we firmly believe our fish need it. Have a nice day.

 

[AbbeysDad]

I would suggest those of you that have high levels of Chlorine or Chloramine in their water supply, change the source of your water.

So you're suggesting that a hobbyist with higher levels of chlorine, or chloramine should move to another part of the country or buy bottled water? Does this really make sense to you when it can easily be neutralized with a conditioner? (btw, conditioner is used routinely and successfully by probably 90% or more of the tropical fish hobbyists out there.)

I don't think my Thread needs a disclaimer. The members of this forum are going to kill and harm more fish by keeping them in tanks with the incorrect lighting, no or very few plants, medicating for no reason, doing huge water changes and keeping fish outside of their natural parameters than they are using this method of water changing. I am not telling anyone to do it, I am saying this is the method I use.

I just think it's irresponsible for an experienced fishkeeper to proclaim a dangerous method s/he uses without mentioning that it wouldn't work for everyone. How do you think all these hobby myths stand the test of time? ... it's because newer hobbyist's hear it from others they think are experienced and echo it along ... and if a lie is told enough times it becomes a pseudo truth.

 

[StevenF]

A couple of notes about chlorine. When it comes in contact with water it reacts with the water fo form hydrochloric acid. It doesn't outgas quickly because it sticks to water. Also the amount of chlorine added to the water will also depends on the water chemistry.

If the water has a lot of carbonate in it More chlorine will be needed to sterilizer the water. high carbonate levels are typically caused by calcium and magnesium carbonates in the water. Cl2 or hydrochloric acid will react with carbonates to form calcium chloride and magnesium chloride as (which are safe for fish) well as CO2. So tap water will typically have a higher GH level then the KH level, and elevated CO2. So typically the original KH and CO2 level typically don't match the original water source.

So in some places more chlorine will be added due to carbonates. The chlorine levels have to stay high longe enough to sterilize the water before it reacts with carbonates. So if you are close to the water treatment plant you might have higher chlorine levels and need use a dechlorinator. However places further away from the treatment plant may not have any free Chlorine because it has all reacted with the carbonates. In these homes a dechlorinator is probably not needed. The substrate and rocks in the tank may also neutralize chlorine. If the substrate is epoxy coated gravel the gravel will not react with chlorine due to the inert epoxy coating.

In my case I am not using a dechlorinator simply because I am using RO water. The filters in RO systems havecarbone filters to remove Chlorine. So as long as those filters are replaced as recommended RO water should be free of Chlorine. However due to RO water not having any GH I am using a GH booster made of calcium sulfate and magnesium chloride. Since plants need a lot more Calcium and magnesium then they need Chlorine and sulfur the Water PH will slowly drop as the plants growand excess sulfate and chloride build up in the water. To prevent the PH drop I place decaorative Sea shells in my tank. The carbonate in the shells reacts with the sulfate and chloride to convert them back to safe calcium chloride and magnesium chloride. This keeps my PH close to 7. I have to add a new sea shell about once a year because they slowly erode away.

So overall slowly dripping water into a tank may or may not work for some people. it all depends on theater chemistry and substrate in use and how much chlorine is added to the water by the utility. It is not possible for the average fish keeper to predict if a dechlorinated is needed.

 

[itiwhetu]

I have never suggested anybody move house or region. I have only suggested they find an alternative water source. Which is what I would expect from anybody giving advice to people with very poor water quality. I don't think the fish should have to "deal with it" which has been suggested.
My system is not a myth and the people on this forum can evaluate it for it's merits on their own.

 

[StevenF]

To be honest, if we KNOW water irritation removes Co2, why would we doubt it removes chlorine?

Water aeration does just remove CO2 from water it also ADDS CO2 to water. If the water has more CO2 in it than the air, aeration will reduce CO2 levels. If CO2 levels in the water are lower than the air, aeration will increase water CO2 levels.

We drink the tap water here, if it were chockfull of chlorine, wouldnt it be harmful to us when drinking it?

Prior to the discovery of bacteria and thehelth deseasesthey cause very few people drank tap, will or river water. Typically the water was used cooking and cleaning. Typically people drank bear or wine. The alcohol kills bacteria making it safe to drink. Typically alcohol levels in these drinks were lower than they are now. Those that drank tap water typically got sick and often died.

Since the recovery of bacteria utilities started treating it to kill bacteria. How at last 100 years most tap water has been teated with chlorine. chloramine, iodine, UV light , or ozone to kill bacteria. Today no one worries about drinking tap water.

My father was a Professor of Chemistry, Bio Chemistry and Bio Physics. when I used to come home from Aquarium Society meetings and talk to him about the medications Aquarists used he was horrified. He used to say nothing should be going into the tanks, these are natural organisms and need the least amount of human intervention. The systems need to be made as an ecosystem to promote life.

ON the surface your fathers comment is correct. However I found in my RO water tank shrimp should not reproduce. Eventually I determined the problem was my water. RO water has nothing in it. with my fertilizer my plants were doing well. and growing. What I found is that animas need all the plant nutrients in my fertilizer plus sodium, lithium, bromine, iodine, selenium, vanadium, and cobalt. And my fertilizer doesn't have these additional nutrients and my RO water doesn't have them. So I made a supplement to add these to my tank. Shrimp are now reproducing. Scientific tests have found that animals cannot live without sodium bromine, iodine, selenium, vamadium, and cobalt Without these 7 nutrients. Also science has found the same for plants. Plants needed 14 nutrients to live and grow. Foranimals it is 21 nutrients. Right now I believe many fish health problems are due to some nutrients missing from the tap water.

You would think that tap water which generally comes from natural sources. However for health reasons water utilities typically tray to get the cleanest water they can find to and or treat and or filter the water to remove unwanted contaminants. This treatment process may remove some of the 7 nutrients animals need for good health. If the fish are not healthy their immune system may not be working well making them susceptible to diseases. In people low iodine and and sodium potassium levels out of balance are known to cause health issues in people. And evidence is mounting for the others.

 

[itiwhetu]

Water aeration does just remove CO2 from water it also ADDS CO2 to water. If the water has more CO2 in it than the air, aeration will reduce CO2 levels. If CO2 levels in the water are lower than the air, aeration will increase water CO2 levels.


Prior to the discovery of bacteria and thehelth deseasesthey cause very few people drank tap, will or river water. Typically the water was used cooking and cleaning. Typically people drank bear or wine. The alcohol kills bacteria making it safe to drink. Typically alcohol levels in these drinks were lower than they are now. Those that drank tap water typically got sick and often died.

Since the recovery of bacteria utilities started treating it to kill bacteria. How at last 100 years most tap water has been teated with chlorine. chloramine, iodine, UV light , or ozone to kill bacteria. Today no one worries about drinking tap water.



ON the surface your fathers comment is correct. However I found in my RO water tank shrimp should not reproduce. Eventually I determined the problem was my water. RO water has nothing in it. with my fertilizer my plants were doing well. and growing. What I found is that animas need all the plant nutrients in my fertilizer plus sodium, lithium, bromine, iodine, selenium, vanadium, and cobalt. And my fertilizer doesn't have these additional nutrients and my RO water doesn't have them. SoI made a supplement to add these to my tank. Shrimp are now reproducing. Scientific tests have found that animals cannot live without sodium bromine, iodine, selenium, vamadium, and cobalt. Without these 7 nutrients. Also science has found the same forplants. Plants needed 14 nutrients to live and grow. Foranimals it is 21 nutrients. Right now I believe fish heat problems are due to some nutrients missing from the tap water.

You would think that tap water which generally comes from natural sources. However for heath reasons water utilities typically tray to get the cleanest water they can find to and or treat and or filter the water to remove unwanted contaminants. This treatment process may remove some of the 7 nutrients animals need for good health. If the fish are not healthy their immune system may not be working well making them susceptible to diseases. In people low iodine and and sodium potassium levels out of balance are known to cause health issues in people. And evidence is mounting for the others.

A good balanced reply, Thank you. RO water was never designed for aquarium work, so you have a number of issues. Which I think you are most probably the most knowledgeable and respectful of those issues on this site. People think water comes from a tap, the same way they think milk comes from a plastic bottle. All I ask is for members of this forum is to consider what they are doing and make sure that what ever they do is for the benefit of the fish.

 

[itiwhetu]

@AbbeysDad it has just occurred to me that you have completely ignored the Threads of @Animallover😍 and @Obsessed with fish, that is a pity. The fish in their tanks are in way more danger of dying than the fish being discussed in this Thread. I am sure that both of those members would appreciate your contribution to their fish tank success.

 

[Guest14017]

I have never suggested anybody move house or region. I have only suggested they find an alternative water source. Which is what I would expect from anybody giving advice to people with very poor water quality. I don't think the fish should have to "deal with it" which has been suggested.
My system is not a myth and the people on this forum can evaluate it for it's merits on their own.

Your suggestion is simply unrealistic for most. Not sure how you don't understand that. And people with chloramines like me... that's what dechlorinator is for! So yes our fish have to DEAL WITH IT. Most of us just use the product for what it's intended for and our fish are just fine. To try to imply that it's BAD fish care to use dechlorinator is absurd.

 

[itiwhetu]

Your suggestion is simply unrealistic for most. Not sure how you don't understand that. And people with chloramines like me... that's what dechlorinator is for! So yes our fish have to DEAL WITH IT. Most of us just use the product for what it's intended for and our fish are just fine. To try to imply that it's BAD fish care to use dechlorinator is absurd.

Really. I think that you can't find an alternative water source is absurd, try and think about it !!

 

[Guest14017]

Nevermind. Do what works for you and I will do the same. I'm off this thread. Have a nice day.