My Start Into Fish Keeping

[Keithoms]

Okay, i have a 14l tank.
I filled it, anti chlorinised it and anti ammonia'ed it and added bacteria. I waited 5 days and bought a goldfish to start off the cycle, at this point before i added it, the water had gone white and cloudy.

I got the lovely fish home and put the bag in the water for 30mins. I then put some tank water in for 30mins. I planned to use an old sea monkey tank to pour the excess water into so i could just pour the fish into the actual tank with hardly any other warter going in. I turned around to get the tank form my brother...
and then i cocked up.. I completely forgot about the bag with the fish in it.....
Ofcourse it then tipped over covering all of my electronics and plug sockets and plugs.. but i didnt care. All i cared about was making sure the fish was ok. I checked the bag and it wasnt in it!! I then looked around and saw it lying still on the floor. My friend quickly grabbed it liqhtly and slipped it into the tank. It swam into a corner and lay down.
About 30 mins later it got up the courage to swim around and seemed quite active and swam around everywhere. It ate all of its food.

Went to bed

Woke up and the fish seemed to be slightly slower, but still looked ok. Went to school.
Came home.. OH NO!! The poor thing was up on its side right against the filter. I turned it off and it swam away, but it only seemed to have one side of fins. It swam in a circle then sat at the bottom. It died shortly after.

Now, what happened? What was the reason?
Could be:

The drop set off a death time bomb
The water wasnt good enough, hence the white cloud.
The filter killed it.

Ok, so after 8 days (tomorrow) the water is now crystal clear. Im going to pick up another goldfish. Anything i should look out for and do/not do (apart from dropping it )

Thanks.

 

[Keithoms]

Also, if i decide that the tank is just too small for a goldfish, would i just be able to buy a heater and get a small shoal of neons the same day without having to change anything of the water?
Tank is plexi btw.

 

[Colin_T]

A 14 ltr tank is pretty small for an sort of fish. You could try a couple of small shrimp or snails but you really want to go a bit bigger if possible.

If the fish was stuck on the filter then the filter was probably too strong and sucked it onto it. The fish might have been damaged when it hit the floor and in its weakened state was just unable to keep away from the filter.

If you want to add another fish to the tank I would drain it and refill it with dechlorinated water before getting the new fish. Anything that breaks down in the water, be it fish food, waste or rotting plants, will cause ammonia to build up. In a small tank it won't take much rotting material to send the ammonia levels way up. Because the fish died in the tank and it is only newly set up, the filters probably don't have enough good filter bacteria living in them and as such there will probably be an ammonia reading in the tank. If you add a fish to a tank with an ammonia reading it will probably die.
Draining the water out and refilling it with dechlorinated water will dilute the ammonia and make it safer for any new fish. However, because it is such a small water volume you will have to be very careful about the amount of food going into the tank and the water changes done on it. If you aren't careful chances are you will lose more fish. A larger volume of water (bigger tank) is more forgiving and has less problems with water quality fluctuations.

 

[Tokis-Phoenix]

Also, if i decide that the tank is just too small for a goldfish, would i just be able to buy a heater and get a small shoal of neons the same day without having to change anything of the water?
Tank is plexi btw.

A 14liter tank is way too small for a goldfish i'm afraid; goldfish grow big (some common varieties can grow to 15inches+ long) and produce a lot of waste, a goldfish would not be happy in a 14litre tank in the long term, so it wouldn't be a good idea to get another goldfish- starting out with a 20gallon tank for goldfish is much better.

Neon tetras are very sensitive to water quality so are not good fish for new tank set ups, i think you may have some misinformation about cycling tanks (the 5day wait thing is unnecessary)- this article in the link below should help explain how water quality works in tanks and more;

http/www.fishforums.net/content/New-to-t...-tank-syndrome/

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The cloudyness in the tank was most likely a bacterial bloom, bacterial blooms are common in new tank set ups which are just beginning to establish themselves and have a lot of nutrients- usually they aren't too much of a problem, however sometimes they can be so small regular water changes with dechlorinator are advised to help reduce the bloom.

What you really need is some accurate test kits for ammonia, nitrites, nitrates and ph- the water in the tank might look crystal clear, but it can still have dangerous toxins in it which are harmful to fish but not visible to our eyes, so the only way to really know for sure if the water quality is good is to test it .
The stress of the goldfish incident certainly would have contributed to its death, but bad water quality is just as likely a killer (ammonia can build up very quickly in small tanks, and ammonia is highly toxic to all aquatic life) etc.

14 litres = 3.7 US gallons, which to be honest is really small for a fish tank. The only fish i would advise for such a tank is a single Siamese Fighting Fish (also known as a Betta). A lot of people who are just getting into the hobby naturally assume that a smaller fish tank is easier to keep, but really it isn't- water quality fluctuates so much more quickly in small tanks, its a real pain in the bum and stress on the fish to help keep control of it when the tank is establishing itself- the larger the tank the larger the volume of water it holds and so the more stable the water quality will stay and so the more simple the tank will be to run etc. If you are serious about keeping fish i would advise starting out with something like a 10-15gallon tank, it will open up a lot more fish stocking options (including those neons ) than what you will get with the 3.7gal and it won't be as much of a hassle to keep fish healthy in and besides, you'll have more space to play around with in the tank when it comes to decorating the tank etc .

Goldfish are hardy fish but they still need a lot of care and generally need quite large tanks and lots of dedication to keep, if looked after well they can live for decades. But when it comes to tropical and sub-tropical fish, there are loads of fish which are just as hardy or even hardier and more simple to keep than goldfish, so if tropical fishkeeping interests you there's no reason why you shouldn't start out straight away with some hardy tropicals .
What i would suggest though while you currently have no fish is to consider cycling your tank using the fishless cycle method- this method takes a lot quicker to complete and does not risk the fish to unstable undesirable water quality etc- more info;

http/www.fishforums.net/content/New-to-t...shless-Cycling/

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[Keithoms]

Thank you for your good replies. Sadly though, the only fish shop i have anywhere near me is a P@H. All they have are:

• (now i think this is right, but it may not be) are minnows (they are really small, quite long, and have lots of faint white horizon. stripes down the side)

• the tiny goldfish (what i got last time)

• regular full size goldfish (biggies)

• some fancys goldfish

• neons

• other small trop. fish

No bettas . They all look really cool and really nice by their pictures, i wish they had some... What about a small shoal of minnows (or what i think they are) ?

 

[Keithoms]

Also, i would VERY happily upgrade to a bigger tank, as i really want to get into fishkeeping, but that size is close to max that will fit on the desk in my bedroom, which is where i want it, so i can look at it while i work.

 

[jennakid]

ROFL!

dont worry.
i do stuff like that.
LMAO..
how old are you?
im 13..
xo

 

[Keithoms]

lol hi, im 14 in 'bout 4 days. And now im pretty pissed.
Went to the shop and brought a water sample. They tested and i got the results of:

Nitrate: 0
Nitrite: 0
Ammonia: 0.50
pH: 6.8/6.9

Now, i see the pH is EVER so slightly low, and the ammonia is not 0. But are these levels really that bad as to not sell me fish and just fob me off with a £7 bottle of pH up?
The measurements on the back of the bottle say you do 2.5ml for every 95l. Im 14l, with that im going to end up using just 0.33ml of this massive bottle and massive waste of money... Now i have to wait a week before they will let me go back.

This SUCKS. Tell me, is this water ok?

 

[Tokis-Phoenix]

Ah to be honest i wouldn't really worry about the ph that much, most fish are quite adaptable to a slightly different ph than what they are ideally used to. With the ammonia though, thats not good, however as you have no fish in the tank it will eventually revert back to 0 as the cycle reverts back to square one.

Shame about your pet shop fish selection though, thats pretty bad- however if you are willing to go a little bit further afield then i'm sure you will come across a lot better petshop- betta's are not uncommon fish, a lot of petshops stock them, so if you check out some other petshops i am sure you will come across some . But if you do get a betta i would definately advise only the one as they can be quite territorial and are happiest kept singularly (the females can sometimes be kept in large groups, however they need a lot larger tank than you current one for this to work).
Betta's are very popular fish in the hobby, there's a whole section on the forum devoted to the fish if you are interested in finding out more about them .

When you put fish in the tank again though the ammonia will start to rise, then the nitrites will start to rise- both of these are toxic to fish, even in small levels, so are not good. The best way to lower ammonia and nitrites is to simply do a small to medium sized water change with dechlorinator- avoid using chemicals which reduce things like ammonia/nitrites/nitrates etc as these tend to only mess up the cycling process of the tank in the long term and should only be used if such toxins are in really extreme levels etc. But the vast majority of the time, a simple small to medium sized water change will suffice in lowering ammonia and nitrites. Nitrates are generally not harmful unless in really excessive levels (like over 40-60 or more), when your tank is finished cycling you will always have 0 ammonia and nitrites and a reading of nitrates between 1 and 40 etc .

When it comes to cleaning the filter (if you don't have one you really need one) in the tank, because this is the place where you beneficial bacteria primarily resides, you have to be careful not to over-clean the filter; just clean it enough so that it runs smoothly. Also don't clean the filter in undechlorinated tap water, as the chlorine in the tap water will kill off your good bacteria in the filter sponges etc- the best thing to clean it out in old tank water taken from the tank (which is to be thrown away anyway) from water changes etc .

 

[shelaghfishface]

hi, you should look on gumtree, or get your parents to sign up at freecycle ( all items are gifts) i bet you would get a nice sized tank either for free or next to nothing....and move your books over a bit to make more room!!
i know its tough at your age,i have sons of a similar age group,never enuff cash, always studying ( they think thats what i think anyway).
i know when i go to the gumtree website i always look on the edinburgh one as dundee has nothing to offer in the way of fish tanks,so i bet you will get lucky, or even place your own ad in the wanted section, believe it or not there are still a few good,kind ,generous people out there and they may help you out, if i was nearer i would,as your obviously a good kid and a willing learner
even if you could get someting like a 2ft it would be a great start for you... and would ease your parents into the costs gently
also what about an ad in the local post office or pet shop??,tanks ime are the sort of thing that are kept in the back of the garage when finished with never to be seen again, my first tank was a 4ft that an old guy had put in his 7 years ago when his son went away to university, and i love that tank!,and i hope you will be equally as lucky in finding a nice person to help you out

shelagh xxx

 

[Keithoms]

hi, you should look on gumtree, or get your parents to sign up at freecycle ( all items are gifts) i bet you would get a nice sized tank either for free or next to nothing....and move your books over a bit to make more room!!
i know its tough at your age,i have sons of a similar age group,never enuff cash, always studying ( they think thats what i think anyway).
i know when i go to the gumtree website i always look on the edinburgh one as dundee has nothing to offer in the way of fish tanks,so i bet you will get lucky, or even place your own ad in the wanted section, believe it or not there are still a few good,kind ,generous people out there and they may help you out, if i was nearer i would,as your obviously a good kid and a willing learner
even if you could get someting like a 2ft it would be a great start for you... and would ease your parents into the costs gently
also what about an ad in the local post office or pet shop??,tanks ime are the sort of thing that are kept in the back of the garage when finished with never to be seen again, my first tank was a 4ft that an old guy had put in his 7 years ago when his son went away to university, and i love that tank!,and i hope you will be equally as lucky in finding a nice person to help you out

shelagh xxx

Hello, thanks for friendly reply.Ill attach a pici of my room and show you why i cannot upgrade. If i could, cost wouldnt be an option.