My Royal Pleco Not Eatting

Crossfc

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I don't think my little pleco isn't eatting. I leave him cucumber and he doesn't seem interested anymore. On closer inspection his tummy seems to be a be concave in.

Water:
pH: 5
Ammonia: .25 ppm
Nitrite: 0 ppm
Nitrate: 50 ppm.

So whats wrong? My other fishes the Angelfish seem fine.
 
Royal plecs (if we're talking about Panaque spp.) only actually need wood. Everything else is icing on the cake. Provided you have some nice bogwood in the tank, you don't need to worry about whether she eats something you put in the aquarium every night. That said, a good varied diet does help. My specimen eats cucumber, courgette, broccoli, carrot, and sweet potato most readily. She will also eat algae pellets (esp. the Hikari ones) and very occasionally she'll get a meaty treat left out at night for her, like a few bloodworms or krill. Overfeeding meaty foods is actually very bad for this species according to a scientist who works on them -- they get fat deposits around the internal organs that seem to lead to premature death.

You can see a video of my Panaque digging into sime cucumber here. Once settled in, these fish can become very tame and active by day.

Your pH is also very low. Panaque are not blackwater fish but actually inhabit larger rivers where the water is more neutral. pH 6 to 7.5 is about right, and hardness should be not too low. Angelfish and many tetras are blackwater fish, and like very acidic conditions, but they will also do well at more neutral conditions as well.

You also have ammonium in the tank. This is very bad. Panaque need mature aquaria. They aren't "hardy" in the same way as, say, bristlenose plecs. Once settled into a mature tank and feeding properly they are very tough, but young specimens immediately after import are notoriously sensitive. A hollow belly, and especially if followed by sunken eyes, is a VERY BAD thing, and on small specimens, can be quickly followed by death.

I suggest you put some wood in the tank for the catfish, and then focus on [a] raising the pH and maturing the filter quickly.

Cheers,

Neale
 
Awww, just saw your Royal munching on her cucumber. She's lovely! How old is she? I've been waiting for the hairy odontodes (?sp?) on my Royal as I was told that was a sure fire way to sex them? If that's not it, then how the hell will I ever know whether my Eddie is a he or a she?
 
Hello Bex,

Yes, she is cute. She's 11 years old. When I got her, she was maybe 3 cm long, but she's now well over 15 cm. I call her a she, but really I have no idea. I just think of her that way!

Hiro Nonogaki sent me this information regarding odontodes and sexing:
Both male and female Panaque develop bristles on their 'cheeks', the region immediately before the pectoral fin, but these bristles are believed to be longer and more luxuriant on sexually mature males. There is no evidence that males develop more odontodes than females. My personal dissection experience on P. nigrolineatus in the field is that females with eggs tend to develop a lot of odontodes for protection. So external examination would not accurate to sex P. nigrolineatus

Cheers,

Neale
 
Cheers for that Neale. WOW 15 cms, can't wait to my Eddie that big, but 11 years :X I got a long time to wait! Eddie is only about 5-6". So it's pretty difficult to sex these guys then? Oh well, Eddie will be a he in my eyes.

Having a plec for 11 years, you must be quite attached to her? Hopefully she'll live a lot longer for you. No wonder you're quite attached to her. We've only had Eddie about 4-5 months and I'm already very attached to him. There's just something about Panaques that makes them that little bit more adorable than 'normal' plecs. :wub:
 
There is a large hunk of bogwood in the tank. I've had the pleco for several months now. It usually eats any cucumber I put in the tank but now it seems uninterested in it. :( I think the ammonia is from me feeding my fish a little while before testing the water.

Any ideas how to get the pH up?
 
You shouldn't get ammonia readings even after feeding.

How big is the tank?

What filtration are you using?

What other fish are in there?

It's more likely to be due to overfeeding regularly, or your filtration not being up to scratch. Even my well stocked community tank, and I mean well stocked (technically it's my hubby's and he's literally filled it as much as he can without overstocking), we have no ammonia readings.

Royals do need bogwood mainly, but I wouldn't agree with the earlier comment that it is all they need. In fact, it is the outer parts of the bog wood they eat, so really to be completely anal about it - you could say you need to add fresh bogwood now and again. But I dont think this is your problem TBH, it sounds more like your filtration cant cope or there's not enough gravel cleaning going on.
 
Bex -- I think I have a small, maybe stunted, specimen. Others who have kept this fish have seen it get a lot bigger in the same time. Possibly the tanks it has been were too small or too overcrowded? Or else I haven't been feeding the same high protein stuff that others have? She really does get mostly veg and wood, as seems to be correct according to the wild fish. She is healthy though, and tame, so I don't think there's anything wrong with her. And yes, I'm very attached to her. I agree that Panaque spp. are different. I can't figure out why. But I think it is their arched back, which makes them look more like a land animal than a fish, and also those big flippers they have instead of fins. I have to resist the temptation to stroke her, she looks so tactile and such a nice handful of fish. Years ago I had a blue-eyed plec, and that was similar. Sadly, I didn't really know what I was doing back then, and it only lasted a year or two. Now you can't find that species for love or money!

Crossfc -- Sounds exactly as if the ammonium is the problem. Just to be sure, don't feed the fish tonight, and then do an ammonium test tomorrow morning before you feed them. If there's still ammonium in the system, do a 50% water change as soon as you can, and repeat every day or two. Until the filter gets fully matured, the ammonium is a serious threat to your Panaque. They aren't fish for immature aquaria. As you've probably gathered by now, these are seriously amazing fish that everyone falls in love with, and they are well worth the effort. Raising the pH isn't difficult. Either add something calcareous (e.g. coral sand) to your filter, or else buy some pH buffer from your aquarium shop and use as indicated on the package.

What's the pH of you tap water? Is there ammonium in the tap water to begin with? Sometimes, if the water is treated with chloramine as well as chlorine, you can get a bogus reading of ammonium (I believe, others may know for certain).

Cheers,

Neale

PS. LisaLQ -- I don't feed my fish just wood, but also vegetables. What they don't need is high protein food. Here's some more stuff Hiro Nonogaki sent me:
Brazilian populations, like from Rio Xingu, Tapajos, or Tocantins, do not live in tanks so long (i.e. no more than 5 years) because people feed too much calorie to them. Specimens I dissected accumulate too much fat around all organs inside of the fish, but the stomach is empty most of the time. I never seen this in the wild. Just not a good idea to feed too much fish food or animal products to P. nigro. I recommend to feed something like spirulina, Chlorella, soy protein, and etc. It is not confirmed but I think they do have nitrogen fixing bacteria in their GI tract, so as long as fish eat wood, people do not have to worried too much about their food.
In the wild at least, the stomach is filled with wood at all times, and they can use this to grow, as has been proved by experiments in labs. There's more here:
http://www.towson.edu/~nelson/Panaque/pqpap-abst.html
 
Thanks for the tip guys. I'll check the ammonia levels tomorrow before I feed them.

The tank is a 30 gallon US and the little guy is just 3 inches big. I keep him with 5 angelfish. As for filter, I use an emhiem external. Its all in my siggie. :)
 
Doh @ me, will teach me to read folks signatures before I ask *cringe*

Sorry for sounding very snooty previously nmonks - I didn't mean it to come across that way - was just hoping no-one was reading it and thinking "Hey, I want a plec that I dont need to feed - I'll gets me a royal!" *lol* You are in fact spot on with your advice, just me being a worry wort!

I'd personally love a royal plec, but with them being wood eaters, they poo sawdust, and my L077 rusty already does that and he poos more than my previous 14" gibby did, and he's only 5-6"! :eek:

Sorry for hijacking the thread somewhat there...
 
LisaLQ -- It's cool, don't worry about it. The main thing is that people don't feed these fish prawns and mussels and the other things that omnivorous plecs enjoy. So long as they're getting wood and veggies, they're happy and healthy!

Cheers,

Neale
 
Update! I added the pH adjuster I have. Hopefully it'll bump the pH up. As for wood maybe like LisaLQ said the large hunk of bogwood I have has been "used" up. I don't see him munching on that either recently.
 
Well, I did some tap water tests. My tap water has a pH 7-7.6 and has no ammonia.

I tested the water again for pH and ammonia. Good and bad news! There is no ammonia in the tank. pH is still 5. :\ I had this power stuff from Seachem called Neutral Regulator. It suppose to adjust pH, remove chlorine and ammonia. I rarely use it since I use API water treatment stuff for water changes. Should I get a different pH adjuster?
 

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