My Plecs Are Dieing, Please Advise..

[SparksCW]

I need help, I used to have 3 plecostorus...

monday the smallest one of them was acting strange, wasn't moving much and was laying upside down in the middle of a bit of gravel, one of its eyes had sort of glazed over too..., but wasn't dead, I kind of guessed it was on it's way out and by that evening it was dead

Now the second biggest plec is laying upside down and has a small patch of glazing on his eye.. I'm guessing it'll be ded by morning

I have one other in there which is massive and I REALLY don't want it to die, anyone got any clue whats wrong with them and what I need to do??

I think it's too late for the 2nd plec now I'm pretty sure he'll be dead by morning, but theres still time for the big one as so far he seems okay.

 

[SparksCW]

TOO LATE

the big one is laying upside down

**** sAKE

 

[dylema]

Have you checked your water stats? if not check them asap. I would do a water change in case you have had an ammonia spike or something else.

How long has the tank been set up? what else is in with the plec? how big is the tank and what kind of filter do you have? Are the fish bloated? What do you feed them?

I hope he pulls through

Dylan

 

[Robin°]

Hello,
Have some other fish been ill?
Some medicines contains copper, wich harm your plecos.
Copper is a heavy metal, wich stores in the gravel.
Your catfishes take it with fodder-search up.
Try to clean the grales thoroughly and do a water change, maybe that´s the problem.
Many greetings
Robin

 

[nmonks]

I agree with RobinËš on this. Check the substrate as well as the water. Fishes in contact with the substrate pick up bacteria that way. Seen it with gobies as well as catfish.

The common (big, gray-brown) plecs are very hardy and should live 20+ years. Even "difficult" plecs like Panaque should be very hardy once settled in and feeding. So:

1. What's the water chemistry (at least pH, please)
2. What is the water temperature (some species like cool water, others very warm)
3. What are you feeding your plec (they aren't "scavengers" and need a proper, vegetable-rich diet)

Cheers,

Neale

PS> Please don't add any new fish before establishing what went wrong. I'd also suggest a 50% water change right away.

 

[SparksCW]

I agree with Robin�š on this. Check the substrate as well as the water. Fishes in contact with the substrate pick up bacteria that way. Seen it with gobies as well as catfish.

The common (big, gray-brown) plecs are very hardy and should live 20+ years. Even "difficult" plecs like Panaque should be very hardy once settled in and feeding. So:

1. What's the water chemistry (at least pH, please)
2. What is the water temperature (some species like cool water, others very warm)
3. What are you feeding your plec (they aren't "scavengers" and need a proper, vegetable-rich diet)

Cheers,

Neale

PS> Please don't add any new fish before establishing what went wrong. I'd also suggest a 50% water change right away.

Hi guys thanks for the replies.. last night after I saw the other two laying upside down I immediately changed about 30% of the water, put some stress coat in and put an air bubble thing in (was worried there wasn't enough oxygen in there but I'm prob being silly..)

Anyway, thankfully both plecs are still alive, but I have no idea if they are well or not.. I went to the aquarium shop and bought a test kit + some treatment for fin rot (the guarmi seems to have it) he said that once the plecs first go upside down theres not much hope for them but im doing all I can to at least try and save them anyway.

I'm about to do a test now (5-in 1 will tell me ph kh gh no2 and no3) I will post the results in a short bit.

Thanks again and I'll post back asap with the results.

 

[SparksCW]

I think I've done this right..

This is on the water from yesterday, NOT since I done the 1/3rd change (i'll do that in asec to compare)

As long as I've done this right then the readings are as follows:

PH - 6.4

KH - 0 *d

GH - > 16 *d

NO3 - 250

NO2 - 1

I have no idea what these results mean and what they should be..

I'm gonna do the same but for the tank itself in a minute (as I changed some of the water last night)

 

[SparksCW]

I done the test test again, similar results but PH level has improved since the water change. HK seems to have improved too.. nitrate levels are way too high still I think, how do I fix that?

Cheers.

 

[nmonks]

PH - 6.4

This is the acidity or alkalinity of the water. Regular water is pH 7, anything below is acid, anything above alkaline. Most fish are happy in the range 6.5 to 7.5, with some having preferences slightly higher or lower. Your pH is a bit low for comfort; while in the wild this may be normal enough, in aquaria a low pH is often a sign of trouble. If the water out of the tap (faucet) is pH 6.4, then don't worry, but if the pH is higher, say 7.0, then do worry, because it means your tank is becoming acidic. Sometimes this is intended (e.g., if we add peat to an aquarium for soft-water cichlids or killifish). But other times it means organic materials are building up in the tank.

KH - 0 *d

This is the carbonate hardness. Carbonate buffers the water, and the more you have, broadly speaking the more stable the water chemistry. This is why for general purposes moderately hard water is actually quite good for fishkeeping. Water without carbonates is not buffered, and often swings about wildly in terms of water chemistry values. My guess is that your plecs are suffering because of this.

GH - > 16 *d

This is the general hardness. Normally, most hardness is carbonate hardness, so that one should be 0 and the other 16 is a bit odd. What it means in practical terms is there is a lot of "stuff" dissolved in the water, but little to none of it is buffering the aquarium water. This is actually not good at all.

NO3 - 250

This is nitrate. Anything up to around 100 mg/l is fine for most freshwater fish. 250 is way too much. Either you are over-feeding, not doing enough water changes, or the water you are putting in the tank has a lot of nitrate right out the tap (faucet).

NO2 - 1

This is nitrite, which is toxic. You want zero. Usually, this either means the tank is overstocked (and the filter can't cope) or the filter is immature (and can't cope because of it). Possibly both.

Anyway, the first thing to do is check your tap (faucet) water supply. What are the water chemistry values there. By the way, if you slice those test strips down the middle, you get two for the price of one. A useful tip.

Do that, and then get back to us.

Cheers,

Neale

 

[SparksCW]

PH - 6.4

This is the acidity or alkalinity of the water. Regular water is pH 7, anything below is acid, anything above alkaline. Most fish are happy in the range 6.5 to 7.5, with some having preferences slightly higher or lower. Your pH is a bit low for comfort; while in the wild this may be normal enough, in aquaria a low pH is often a sign of trouble. If the water out of the tap (faucet) is pH 6.4, then don't worry, but if the pH is higher, say 7.0, then do worry, because it means your tank is becoming acidic. Sometimes this is intended (e.g., if we add peat to an aquarium for soft-water cichlids or killifish). But other times it means organic materials are building up in the tank

I re-done the test in the tank itself since I changed 30% or so of the water and the PH level has increased very slightly so presume now the PH level is about right..

KH - 0 *d

This is the carbonate hardness. Carbonate buffers the water, and the more you have, broadly speaking the more stable the water chemistry. This is why for general purposes moderately hard water is actually quite good for fishkeeping. Water without carbonates is not buffered, and often swings about wildly in terms of water chemistry values. My guess is that your plecs are suffering because of this.

GH - > 16 *d

How do I resolve that?

This is nitrate. Anything up to around 100 mg/l is fine for most freshwater fish. 250 is way too much. Either you are over-feeding, not doing enough water changes, or the water you are putting in the tank has a lot of nitrate right out the tap (faucet).

NO2 - 1

This is nitrite, which is toxic. You want zero. Usually, this either means the tank is overstocked (and the filter can't cope) or the filter is immature (and can't cope because of it). Possibly both.

The tank is definetly not over-stocked.. all i have in there is 1 x flying fox 1 x blue guarmi and 2 plecs, I tihnk my problem is lack of water changes, as explained above im pretty new to tropical and fish in general and didnt know I could safely change 20 or so % of water without dropping the temperature too much.. I always thought it'd harm them. For future I know now to change 20 or so % of the water every fortnight..

Anyway, the first thing to do is check your tap (faucet) water supply. What are the water chemistry values there. By the way, if you slice those test strips down the middle, you get two for the price of one. A useful tip.

Do that, and then get back to us.

Cheers,

Neale

By that do you mean to use one of these test stips on some tap water?

Thank you very much for the help, I really appricieate it and hope my plecs are saved.. or at the very least i ve learnt a big lesson in fish keeping so it doesn't happen again!

The big ones just come out of hiding at back of tank, he looks pretty healthy to me and is laying normally not upside down or anything like before.. here's a pic of him, reckon he looks healthy on the outside? the off colour bits on him are part of his pattern i think as looking at an older pic they are there too , so think its just the colour pattern of him..

He's not massive compared to others, but I've had him since he was tiny and he's grown a lot in just a year 8)

 

[CFC]

You should be changing 20-25% every week, plecs are messy fish that produce a lot of nitrogenous waste which needs regular removal.
Without regular water changes organic acids build up which eat away at the buffering capacity of the water (the KH) this in turn causes the pH to drop, sometimes over night, which severely stresses fish and leaves them open to disease.
Regular water changes should top up the natural buffers which keeps the pH stable, however if your tapwater has a low KH you may need to add some additional buffer to the new water before it is added to the tank.

 

[Robin°]

Hi,
Sparcs, you said, a falling ph, under 6,5 is a indication of No²/³
I adjusted my water with peat and rainwater of a ph of 5,5. My 134er likes it!

Your catfish seems to be a Liposarcus pardalis, in my opinion he needs a realy big tank!
150cm should be a minimum!
I wish you and your catfish all good!
Many greetings
Robin

 

[PlecMama]

How are the little guys now?

 

[SparksCW]

You should be changing 20-25% every week, plecs are messy fish that produce a lot of nitrogenous waste which needs regular removal.
Without regular water changes organic acids build up which eat away at the buffering capacity of the water (the KH) this in turn causes the pH to drop, sometimes over night, which severely stresses fish and leaves them open to disease.
Regular water changes should top up the natural buffers which keeps the pH stable, however if your tapwater has a low KH you may need to add some additional buffer to the new water before it is added to the tank.

I'll do the change every week from now on then, many thanks for the advice , I'm also going to get one of those gravel vacuums to clean the gravel out a lot and do it regularily..

Hi,
Sparcs, you said, a falling ph, under 6,5 is a indication of No²/³
I adjusted my water with peat and rainwater of a ph of 5,5. My 134er likes it!

Your catfish seems to be a Liposarcus pardalis, in my opinion he needs a realy big tank!
150cm should be a minimum!
I wish you and your catfish all good!
Many greetings
Robin

thanks i have an 80cm tank, possibly a bit small for it then? but its still a pretty big tank and the plec is only about 16cm long. If he gets too big for the tank I'll get a bigger tank

How are the little guys now?

I don't really want to be too hopeful and say too much, but they look fine, they seem back to their normal selfs.. ive been watching them since 5pm and not once have they acted strange or layed on their backs like they were doing all of last night... i don't know if they are going to be alright or not but they certainly look a lot better now..

 

[nmonks]

Plecs are pretty tough fish. Get the water under control, and they'll be fine.

You don't really need a gravel vacuum. A stick and a hose pipe work perfectly well. Stir the gravel as you such the water into the bucket, and most of the crud will come out happily enough. Use it on pot plants -- they love the stuff!

Cheers,

Neale