My phosphates are out of control...Brown Algae

[Colin_BC]

I've had an algae problem for a while now in my (heavily planted) 30G on my plants. My only plant that has been unneffected by the algae and stil grows like a weed is my Hottonia inflata.

I have lots of Fluorite for substrate and use Nutrafin's CO2 system. The algae noticably started the first time I used fluorish (1mL/week) when I was running under 2 WTG. I thought perhaps it was from low light that kept the plants from outcompeting the algae. I'm now running 6 WPG(6 of 8 bulbs daylight CPF's) and the problem still persists, but not as rampant. I tried using no Fluorish for a couple weeks to starve out the algae, but all it did was slow the plants. I then bought an Iron test kit and phosphate test kit. My iron (as expected from starving) was 0mg/L, but my phosphates were over what the test reads at 5mg/L. I then read that if the plants are starved of any nutrient they need, all processes stop (which I thought could contribut to the algae). I tried adding 1mL of fluorish again (bottle recommends 1-2mL per 50G per week. I tested several hours later and it was still 0mg/L of Iron. I added another 1mL the next day and still 0mg/L. This went on for 3 days and still 0mg/L of Iron.....

My pH is 7, my nitrates are around 5, my ammonia is between 0.1 and 0.2, and my phosphates read above 5mg/L. I have performed several 30-40% water changes to no effect. I secured a nylon with 1/2 cup of PhosGuard (Seachem) over the entire outlet of my cannister filter. The nylon actually did a great job of taking out all the tiny crap the filter missed in one night, but after 4 days the 1/2 cup of PhosGuard hadn't changed the phosphate levels at all. I secured another nylon sac of 1/2 cup new Phosguard near the inlet. It's been 3 days now and the phosphates are still off the charts. The brownish algae is on many of my plants. You can see the bright green new growth that has no algae. I have always performed weekly 30-40% water changes, but more recently every 3 days. I've tried vacuuming the gravel as best as I can, but my plants are scattered in such a way that it is extremely difficult to get to a lot of it.

I want to determine what is the cause of the phosphates and eliminate that. My LFS owner suggested the food I was using (AVANT Tropical Fish Food Flakes) was loaded in phosphates. The other thing I feed is dried bloodworms, but he said those shouldn't give a phosphate problem. For flakes I have in the past week swicthed to OMEGA ONE Natural Protein Formula Veggie Flakes (although Whole Salmon, Halibut, Black Cod, Whle Herring, Spirulina, Krill, Shrimp, and Squid are all listed as ingredients before any veggies ).

Should I start doubling my doses of fluorish to 2mL or more? Any suggestions??? Is Fluorish a good fertilizer to use? It's what I was recomended when I hit 2 WPG.

Algae Covered Limnophilla Sessiflora

Algae Covered Java Fern

Algae on medium-fast growing plant in front of pic (not sure of name)

Colin

 

[George Farmer]

Hi Colin,

I would suggest your tap water is the main cause of your algae compounded by your high light levels. I also have tap water loaded with PO4, at least 5 mg/l. I have had excellent results with RowaPhos, I use 250ml in a net inside the last stage of my external Fluval 204 and my PO4 reads under 0.25 mg/l. It costs approx £12 and the last lot lasted over 10 months.

To get rid of your current algae I'd recommend Esha's Protalon 707. It is completely plant and fish safe and actually improved plant growth in my setup. I don't normally advocate the use of chemicals but I have used this just the once to no detrimental effect to anything except algae.

I'm surprised your Ammonia levels are detectable, I don't think this would contribute to algae but it can't be good for your fish. What are your Nitrate levels?

 

[Bol]

Colin,

I would also suggest testing your tap water for phosphates (and/or, call your local water company to find out what the phosphate level is coming out of the plant) ... assuming you use tap water, of course.

Also, it would probably be a good idea to verify the results of your phosphate test. Could just be a bad test kit ... especially since (it seems that) your LFS owner didn't immediately confirm that he had high-phosphate water, too.

Speaking of which, I've never had one myself, but I've heard from many sources that most hobby-grade iron test kits are notoriously inaccurate, and that most people don't even bother with them.

And, for info, I've been using Omega One as my exclusive flake for about six months. I know I overfeed at times (and the snails can back me up on that ), and have never seen a phosphate problem.

Flourish is a good fertilizer, but personally, I wouldn't start upping the dosage yet; I'd confirm the test results first.

 

[Colin_BC]

I have actually tested my tap water first thing after gettingthe phosphate test kit, and it came up around 0.25mg/L. My LFS owner told me that phosphates in tapwater are something like a time release, where you may get a low result on the test initially, but over a period of 24-48 hours, the phosphates from the tap water show their ugly little heads. He suggested I get something like a Brita Tap filter. I used to use only RO water, but as my tank increased in population (thus increasing water change frequency) the RO water got a bit pricey and inconvenient @ $3 per 5g.

Do you think my LFS owner is on to something with the Brita filter?

I believe that there is still some room in my Eheim 2213 cannister filter. Should I perhaps see about taking all my PhosGuard from the nylon sac and putting it in the filter itself? the package for PhosGurad says that it is not an exchange resin and will not leach Phosphates and silicate back into the water. How accurate is this?

Colin

 

[konrad05]

Hey, Colin. I've experienced and am still kinda experiencing that exact same problem. First off, flourish isn't a true fertilizer. What it does is just break down iron into finer forms for plants to use directly, so you should still have some other "general" fertilizer being added. Though I recommend getting a "pure iron+potassium supplement. I wouldn't say using the phosphate remover is best because it removes nutrients that plants need as well. What worked for me was buying lots of "otocinulus catfish" and changing my bulbs. What kind do you use? Planted tanks shouldnt have high kevlin bulbs like powerglos or aquaglos. Best are mid kelvin or 10,000. I pretty sure the algae is linked to that as well since mine decreased significantly since I changed them. As a last resort, you can always splurge on a UV sterilizer which will 100% get rid of the algae in the water and probably in total. Good luck and HTH.

 

[Colin_BC]

The algae started when I had 60W of tube fluoro's (2x PowerGlo and 1x AquaGlo). This is when it was at it's worst. I now have 184W, or 6.1 WPG (138W Daylight compact spiral fluoro's and 46W of regular (yellowish) compact spiral fluoro's. There is more info on my canopy here (DIY job).

I've been thinking about the oto's, but I have one big concern. My Killifish kinda tries to eat anything that will fit in it's mouth, and some things that don't! He'll grab onto an algae wafer almost twice the size of it mouth and chew on it until it fits. On the bright side, I added some ghost shrimp a about a week ago and they seem to keep him distracted, although he has yet to catch one despite his constant efforts. I may grab 3 or 4 today...

Colin

 

[Colin_BC]

I just called my LFS owner and he remembered me asking about some oto's a week ago, so he brought a dozen in. He's got 4 holding for me. If they are cheap enough and not going to overpopulate and pollute my tank, I may grab more.

Colin

 

[Bol]

My LFS owner told me that phosphates in tapwater are something like a time release, where you may get a low result on the test initially, but over a period of 24-48 hours, the phosphates from the tap water show their ugly little heads.

I'm no expert and could be wrong, but that doesn't sound likely to me. Just for giggles, have you taken some tap water and let it sit for a couple days, and then test it for phosphates?

Even if that is true, you would think that after several 30-40% water changes, you'd see the phosphate levels drop at least into measureable range, for a while.

Also, ...

First off, flourish isn't a true fertilizer. What it does is just break down iron into finer forms for plants to use directly

This is untrue -- perhaps you're thinking of Flourish Iron, or one of the specialty Flourish products?

While Flourish cannot legally be called a "fertilizer" because the concentrations are much lower than in terrestrial fertilizers (officially, it's a 'comprehensive plant supplement'), it does in fact contain a broad range of nutrients (N,P,K,Ca,Mg,S,B,Cl,Co,Cu,Fe,Mn,Mo,Na,Zn are listed on the label).

 

[Colin_BC]

I just picked up 5 oto's to help clean the tank of algae. In the meantime, what would you say to increasing the doese of fluorish to at least 2mL, given my high light and being heavily planted. I get the impression from the very slow growth of most plants (except for one plant which I found out today is Water Sprite, it needs weekly trimming almost) that the 1mL doses aren't cutting it...

Any thoughts?

 

[konrad05]

Yeah sorry, it depends on which flourish you use. There's different kinds. The one that isn't a true fertilizer is the "Flourish Excel". Hope that's not the one you're using.

 

[Colin_BC]

I;m not using Fluorish Excel, jjust plain old Fluorish.

I don't think my placement of the phosguard gave it much opportunity to fully work, so I put all the Phosguard into my cannister filter. I also had enough room in the media basket to cram an Aquaclear 200 Carbon pack in. Since I like how well the nylon over the filter outlet cleaned all the little crap out of the water that the filter missed, I wrapped a piece over my filter media basket in such a way that it has no chance of interfering withthe motor. Hopefully it will still filter the little crap and without being as gawdy as the one I had over the outlet bar.

I want to add fluorish, but I know the carbon will suck it all out. I'll wait and see if the phosphates go down and for the carbon to expire, then I'll give some fluorish. In the meantime since the carbon won't let any fluorish stay in the water for long, I'm going to try feeding daily to every 2 days will 1/2mL doses of fluorish.

Colin