My Journey Has Begun...

[fishwatcher]

Yesterday I emptied out the sand in my tank, added salt to the water and a powerhead. Today I'm picking up the aragonite substrate. I'm going to turn off the filter and powerhead before I put it in though... when I was removing the old stuff some got caught in the filter and it was making awful noises! I had to break it down and rinse it all out.
So far I've added 8 cups of salt, and the hydrometer reads 1.021. So after I add the substrate I'll finish filling it with water and add a little more. I am going for a reading between 1.023-1.024. Will that be good? Once I get that stable I'm going to practice doing a few water changes so I'll actually know how to do it before there are any lives stake.
Here's where I am wondering about some things....
Once the salinity and all are stable (I'm thinking about 3-4 days?) then I had planned on getting some Bio-Spira (for salt water, of course) and at least 1 or 2 chunks of LR along with a few pieces of base rock and adding 1 fish - thinking a clown since they are hardier. Are there problems with that plan? (I know a lot of folks here do a fishless cycling, but I've found Bio-Spira to work great with my freshwater tanks.)
Thanks for helping me find my way!!

 

[Demm]

i think alot of people are going to tell you to just use live rock and not use any fish. the live rock rock in place of the fish because they are of course alive, and produce ammonia just like a fish.

 

[kkyyllee]

do not cycle with fish its just cruel and unnessacary....

bio-spira= waste of money, is this going to be a reef tank?

 

[AK77]

Couple of questions.

How big is your tank? What setup are you going for? Is it going to be fish only or are you looking to go FOWLR or Reef? Are you using RO water or tap water?

If its tap water you are using, don't plan on adding invertebrates as your nitrates will be sky high. Although this wont affect the majority of fish, it does harm invertebrates. You'll also have a tonne of algae growing too as a result. Don't plan on adding corals either.

Personally I would drained the tank down completely and then added the sand, rather than pour it into a tank full of water. You will have cloudy water for ages and bits of sand dust floating at the surface, which if sucked into the powerhead could start to knacker the impeller.

What is going to be your filtration system? External filter? Live Rock? Deep Sand Bed?

 

[fishwatcher]

let's see... this will not be a reef tank, it will be a FOWLR tank. I don't have the lights for corals.
It is just a 20-g, so my planned stocking is:
1 clown
1 lawnmower blenny
an urchin
a handful of hermits
a handful of snails
maybe one other something... thinking a small starfish or crab?

Am going to buy 2 lbs of live rock, probably 10 lbs base rock. I want a bit of rock, but not the whole tank, KWIM?
Tap water (treated, of course) is in there now. The salt I bought is made esp for soft tap water and RO water... adds things that are normally missing from those waters. The brand is Red Sea. The lfs man said I could use the tap water fine, but that if I wanted to I could bring a 2-3g container and fill it up for about .50 cents. Unfortunately he's almost an hour drive from here so I doubt I'll be doing too much of that.

Filtration is a HOB rated for a 30g, then some LR. The aragonite is about 1 1/2-2" deep. I don't think that qualifies as a deep sand bed, but please tell me if I'm wrong. Oh, I already added the substrate... I did rinse it some, but of course it's a bit cloudy. I added it by putting some in a bag and then slowly sitting the bag in the tank and easing it out. It worked fairly good at not sending it all flying.

As for cycling, can you use cycled filter media from a FW tank? I've always had great success with Bio-Spira in my fw tanks, but I have heard that it won't instantly cycle a sw tank, only help it get done quicker.
How would I cycle using LR? Would I just throw some food in each day?

I think that was all the questions, but if I missed one please let me know.
Thanks!!

 

[Danno]

You cannot use matured media in a freshwater into a marine tank. The species are different. The freshwater bacteria will die. Once live rock is completely cured in YOUR tank (not the pet stores) you will need to add your clean up crew. After awhile you may add a fish or two. You will need a minimum of 20 pounds of live rock seeing that you tank is a nano. You could always break it up and make it more compact. Just remember you should shoot between 10x to 20x turnover rate of the tank. If you are using mechanical filter media in your HOB filter just make sure you clean it out once a week.

 

[fishwatcher]

So getting cured rock from them will mean that it will still have to cure in my tank?
The powerhead I have turns is over 8 times, plus the filter, which I can't quite remember as I've had it a while, but I'm sure it does it at least 2-3 times, as it is rated for an even larger tank than I have.
Once I put a few pieces of LR in I'll wait for it to cure, which should take a week or 2? (I can't afford 20 lbs of it... it's $8.99 lb. around here. Which is why I'm getting 2-3 lbs of it and then letting it seed base rock over time.)
Will I need to add food to the tank to keep the LR alive?

 

[Danno]

So getting cured rock from them will mean that it will still have to cure in my tank?

Yes

The powerhead I have turns is over 8 times, plus the filter, which I can't quite remember as I've had it a while, but I'm sure it does it at least 2-3 times, as it is rated for an even larger tank than I have.

Just make sure you have a minimum of 10x

Will I need to add food to the tank to keep the LR alive?

Nope

 

[kkyyllee]

i would get alittle bit more liverock than 2-3lbs, 10lbs/lr 10lbs/base would be better, bio-spira wont instantly cycle, fw tanks cant be instantly cycled either, i would get something besidse a lawnmower blenny, theyre hard to feed and starve usually when algea runs out

 

[fishwatcher]

So how does the live rock stay alive if there's nothing there to feed it? (Can you tell I know NOTHING about this?!?)
Looking up my filter it says the flow rate is 150 gph, so it should theoretically turn over the water 7 times, though I'm sure it's more like 4-5 with media in there. At least now I know it should be enough combined with the power head (it says it turns over 145 gph). Once my live rock takes hold I'll eventually do away with most of the filter media, but I don't plan on that happening anytime soon. (I need at least 1 lb. of lr per gallon to be able to do away with the filter media, is that correct?)
How long does it typically take LR to seed base rock?
Once I add the LR and it cures I can add fish then, or do I still wait a while? And I keep track of the nitrogen cycle through testing just like in fw, then when it's all on 0 and there are some nitrates that means the cycle is complete and I can add fish? Do I add all 2-3 of them at once to keep the cycle going, or the clean-up crew first, then a week or so later a fish, and so on?

Sorry if I'm going over the same ground twice (or more!), I just want to make sure I do it right. I'm scared to death of screwing this up royally.

ETA: Can you feed LM Blennies algae pellets?

 

[AK77]

Live rock in itself isn't alive. That's a little bit of a misnomer. LR is essentially the same as the filter media in a canister filter. Its just extremely pourous rock that provides ideal breeding grounds for denitrifying bacteria to exist and breed. It also provides homes and an ecosystem for tiny organisms like cocopeds and amphipods and the occassional bristleworm. The bacteria needs water circulating around the rocks, much like it does in canister filter, so that is the reason for powerheads, and strong ones at that.

Base rock can take a long time to seed. To give you some idea, base rock is placed in the ocean for up to two years to fully colonise before its collected and sold. Not a bad nest egg. Throw some rocks in the ocean, come back later and flog it to us morons for £10-£15 a kilo

Once the LR is in your tank, allow it to cycle. The LR will have some die off on it, depending how long its been out of water. This causes ammonia spikes... thus the nitrogen cycle begins. Check your levels every few days to see what the ammonia and nitrite are doing. Once they are O and your nitrates are below 20ppm, throw in some hermits and a variety of snails. If you purchase your rock locally, and its only out the water for a short while, you probably wont have any issues with ammonia or cycling the tank but, still keep monitoring the water chemistry to be on the safe side.

If you have a really nice deep sand bed, then this will also provide homes for the denitrying bacteria, and also the anaerobic bacteria at the lower regions, which will also absorb nitrate.

Also, keep an eye out for unwanted hitchhikers, such as mantis shrimp and fireworms.

HTH,

AK

 

[fishwatcher]

Oh, ok... I'm beginning to understand now. Man, I'm dense sometimes!
I wonder if I take some of my water and have them put the rock in a bucket with the water if that would help the die-off?
Once the crabs and such have been in, how long do a wait before I add a fish? Will that depend on how much LR I get?
Thanks a lot!!!

Edited to add: How low in the tank should the powerhead be? It's about half-way down right now.
Thanks!

 

[AK77]

Well if you can transport the rock in water, so much the better, although if its only like 20-30mins drive from the LFS and the rock is in sealed bags to retain the moisture, then there shouldn't be too much of a problem.

As for adding fish, I'd say about a week after your CUC goes in. So long as ammonia and nitrites are gone you can add fish. Marine fish don't seem to be affected as much by high nitrates as FW fish do. If you are planning on having shrimp and starfish too, then you will want to get your nitrates down to well below 20ppm.

Ah wait... you are using tap water arent you? Scrub that last part then. No inverts for you lol.

 

[fishwatcher]

Oh, no urchin! I really wanted one of them, too. I don't plan on having any shrimp, just crabs and snails and a couple of fish.
Why is it that tap water makes you not be able to have inverts?
The lfs is about 45-50 min away, so I may take my bucket o' water with me, just to be safe.
I appreciate all of the help!

 

[AK77]

Well you could get one.... it will just drop all its needles and die within the day most likely lol.

Amongst all the other crap and 700+ chemicals that are found in tap water, are a lot of dissolved salts. They give the water a high nitrate content. My water supply fluctuates between 300-400 ppm before it goes through my RO machine. When it comes out its 0 ppm

It is a lot cheaper to use tap water but, it does limit what you can stock. At the moment my tank is FOWLR, but I would sure miss my shrimps and starfish and urchin. I am going to make it a reef tank soon, but Im just waiting on a few bits to get sorted out.

In short.... inverts don't do nitrates