My Fishless Cycle!

[Ape-man]

Right, I am pretty confused now... My Ammonia is still 2ppm, but my nitrite has risen again to around 0.75ppm, that's a rise in nitrite of 0.5ppm and my ammonia hasn't changed, is this normal or even possible??

And yes... I was thinking the same: "Does my ammonia test kit work?", well it appears to cos I have just tested my tap water again for ammonia and it is showing as 0ppm!!!

I am going to keep going but as waterdrop said, would it be worth doing a partial water change at the weekend and re-dosing with ammonia... Or once again, shall I just sit it out, cos if I am being totally honest, the reading on the ammonia did look like it might be getting a bit lighter tonight, hence getting lower, or maybe this is just wishful thinking!!! :

 

[dudleyd]

I was stuck on about 2ppm of ammonia for about 4 weeks with nitrite levels off the chart, got so fed up of it I did about a 90% water change cos I convinced myself something was wrong, even bought a new ammonia test kit.

Dosed it back up to 4ppm of ammonia and the next day it was 0, now a week late it;s dropping from 4 to 0 in 12 hours. Just waiting for the nitrites to fall then a week of qualifying and and then some fishys.

Not saying a water change could help but it certainly did in my case.

DD

 

[rebrn]

It might be worth you doing a partial water change and redosing with ammonia, I don't think it would hurt, but don't quote me on that. Like waterdrop said it is rare, but not unheard of for the ammonia to take longer than 2 weeks for it to drop to 0, and yes it is possible for your nitrites to rise even though your ammonia is not droping. My scientific brain says it is impossible, but the reality of it is that it does happen that way. I have seen it for my self, and several people have posted the same experience. I too was stuck at 2ppm of ammonia while nitrites were off the chart. I don't quite understand why it does that but it does.

 

[Ape-man]

Right...

I've done a 50% water change earlier today, retested the water and it had dropped to ammonia level of 1ppm. I then re-dosed with 2.5ml of ammonia to bring it back to 4-5ppm according to the calculator.
I also added some more bio-max to my filter (as the cage was only half full).

Just done my water tests, results are:
Ammomia: 4ppm, Nitrite: 0.25ppm, pH: 8.2

Finger crossed something starts to happen now!!!

 

[rebrn]

Adding the extra biomax should help to give you more surface area for the bacteria to grow on. Good luck hopefully that will do the trick.

 

[waterdrop]

I assume you did a 50% just for ease of the process, like leaving the filter/heater on? Just for future reference and for other beginners reading your thread, it rarely makes any sense to do anything less than a "down to the gravel" water change in a fishless cycling tank. You want to get maximum benefit from the work when doing these and that means gravel cleaning and replacing as much water as possible. People get into the habit of discussing/doing less than full water changes mostly out of worry of shock to fish and of course they are not a factor during fishless cycling.

My feeling in your case so far is that the cycle is just being slow. Hopefully there are not any unusual factors inhibiting the bacteria and at some point they will suddenly be showing enough for your tests to pick it up. Don't forget that our tests and numbers are up on a macro scale and there can be quite a bit of "below the radar" nitrogen cycle activity while our macro numbers look static.

~~waterdrop~~

 

[Ape-man]

Hi everyone, not be on for a while, I unfortunately have been a bit pre-ocupied with other things (mainly a very broken car!!), but I have still been doing/recording my daily reading so my first post on this thread is now up-to-date with my readings.

I need a bit of advice now, I am going away for four nights on Monday, so with this in mind what is the best thing to do, although I don't really have much choice. Shall I just leave the tank and get straight back to it on Friday when I return? Or would it be worth adding a little more ammonia just in case it does drop? If the ammonia does drop to zero with the bacteria "starve" if I don't re-dose it, or will they be ok for a few nights (this is asuming my ammonia level will ever drop to zero!!)

Oh, and.. No there is no-one who would be able to keep an eye on it, or at least no-one I trust!!

Cheers in advance

Andy

 

[rebrn]

I think you will be ok, I don't want to say for sure that your ammonia will not drop while you are away, it is possible that it might drop to 0 while you are gone, but no guarantees on that. But even if it does you should still be ok, the bacteria doesn't die off that quickly, you might loose some of the bacteria, but I still think you are better off taking the risk then adding more ammonia. If you add too much ammonia (i.e more than 5ppm) you run the risk of growing the wrong type of bacteria, and that would be far worse than loosing some, at least in my opinion.

 

[jacko32]

hi there im in huddersfield and i started a new tank i was reading up on doing a fishless cycle and it sounded good so i got the ammonia and started it off within 2 weeks the nitrite spiked and the ammonia dropped to 0ppm the nitrites where off the scale i topped the ammonia back up to 2ppm and waited for the nitrates to spike sure enough a couple of days later they did and both the amonia and nitrites were 0ppm topped up the ammonia again to 2ppm and within 8hours both ammonia and nitrites 0ppm again so i figured it was cycled

now heres the good part i read more articles on the nitrogen cycle and almost everyone i read says that the bacteria will be dormant at pH 6.0 or lower
the water that comes out of our taps in huddersfield is pH 6.0 which begs the question IS IT CYCLED? who knows but ive been adding 3ml of ammonia everyday and the next morning its gone and so are the nitrites only small traces of nitrates are left

 

[rebrn]

Hi Jacko, if you are clearing 2ppm of ammonia to 0 ammonia and 0 nitrites in 8 hours, you are not fully cycled, but close to it, you need to bring your tank up to 4ppm of ammonia. Once you have cleared 4ppm of ammonia to 0 ammonia and 0 nitrites in 12 hours (or less) consistantly for 7-8 days that is when you can count yourself as cycled. As for the pH, it is true that the bacteria grow more slowley in a pH of 6.0 or less. However, it is not completely impossible to cycle a tank with a pH of 6, it would just take longer. If your pH is 6.0 coming out of your tap then you probably want to take measures to raise it, i.e baking soda if no fish are in the tank. For a longer term solution once you have fish in your tank you can add crushed coral to your filter to raise the pH. Most fish perfer water which is slightly alkaline, so around 7.2/7.4 (at least to my knowledge), so in the long run you will probably want to look into doing something to correct the pH. You can buy chemicals that do this, but using something like crushed coral, from what I hear, will provide a more consistent increase in pH which is what you want.

 

[Ape-man]

I think you will be ok, I don't want to say for sure that your ammonia will not drop while you are away, it is possible that it might drop to 0 while you are gone, but no guarantees on that. But even if it does you should still be ok, the bacteria doesn't die off that quickly, you might loose some of the bacteria, but I still think you are better off taking the risk then adding more ammonia. If you add too much ammonia (i.e more than 5ppm) you run the risk of growing the wrong type of bacteria, and that would be far worse than loosing some, at least in my opinion.

Thanks reburn, that's kind-a what I was thinking, but it's nice to have a bit of reasurance!! Fingers crossed, my ammonia will drop to zero, at the moment it's a bit like watching paint dry!!!

hi there im in huddersfield and i started a new tank i was reading up on doing a fishless cycle and it sounded good so i got the ammonia and started it off within 2 weeks the nitrite spiked and the ammonia dropped to 0ppm the nitrites where off the scale i topped the ammonia back up to 2ppm and waited for the nitrates to spike sure enough a couple of days later they did and both the amonia and nitrites were 0ppm topped up the ammonia again to 2ppm and within 8hours both ammonia and nitrites 0ppm again so i figured it was cycled

now heres the good part i read more articles on the nitrogen cycle and almost everyone i read says that the bacteria will be dormant at pH 6.0 or lower
the water that comes out of our taps in huddersfield is pH 6.0 which begs the question IS IT CYCLED? who knows but ive been adding 3ml of ammonia everyday and the next morning its gone and so are the nitrites only small traces of nitrates are left

I live in Kippax (the other side of Leeds) It's strange how we both get our water from "Yorkshire Water", only live 20-25 miles appart and my tap water comes out at around pH 7, and now I'm cycling it has lifted to pH 8 - 8.2.
Do you find your tap water seems to have high nitrate levels? I have measured mine a few times and get readings anything in between 20ppm and 40ppm!!!

 

[rebrn]

Thanks reburn, that's kind-a what I was thinking, but it's nice to have a bit of reasurance!! Fingers crossed, my ammonia will drop to zero, at the moment it's a bit like watching paint dry!!!

I know what you mean, it can get pretty boring waiting for that first ammonia drop. Here's hoping that the bacteria are just waiting for you to go away for a few days

A watched tank never cycles

 

[waterdrop]

"my tap water comes out at around pH 7, and now I'm cycling it has lifted to pH 8 - 8.2"

Water towers are used to pressurize water and force it out through the pipe system into homes, putting the water at higher than atmospheric pressure. This allows a greater than normal amount of carbon dioxide (CO2) to dissolve in the tap water. CO2 is mildly acidic and so the tap water will measure as being slightly more acid right out of the tap but will go more basic as the CO2 gasses out. Ammonia is a strong base and will also case the tank move to a higher pH when it is added for fishless cycling. Together, these two factors may be most of the pH change you are seeing (note that both will not be present for the most part once you have a running tank with fish.

~~waterdrop~~

 

[jacko32]

I think you will be ok, I don't want to say for sure that your ammonia will not drop while you are away, it is possible that it might drop to 0 while you are gone, but no guarantees on that. But even if it does you should still be ok, the bacteria doesn't die off that quickly, you might loose some of the bacteria, but I still think you are better off taking the risk then adding more ammonia. If you add too much ammonia (i.e more than 5ppm) you run the risk of growing the wrong type of bacteria, and that would be far worse than loosing some, at least in my opinion.

Thanks reburn, that's kind-a what I was thinking, but it's nice to have a bit of reasurance!! Fingers crossed, my ammonia will drop to zero, at the moment it's a bit like watching paint dry!!!

hi there im in huddersfield and i started a new tank i was reading up on doing a fishless cycle and it sounded good so i got the ammonia and started it off within 2 weeks the nitrite spiked and the ammonia dropped to 0ppm the nitrites where off the scale i topped the ammonia back up to 2ppm and waited for the nitrates to spike sure enough a couple of days later they did and both the amonia and nitrites were 0ppm topped up the ammonia again to 2ppm and within 8hours both ammonia and nitrites 0ppm again so i figured it was cycled

now heres the good part i read more articles on the nitrogen cycle and almost everyone i read says that the bacteria will be dormant at pH 6.0 or lower
the water that comes out of our taps in huddersfield is pH 6.0 which begs the question IS IT CYCLED? who knows but ive been adding 3ml of ammonia everyday and the next morning its gone and so are the nitrites only small traces of nitrates are left

I live in Kippax (the other side of Leeds) It's strange how we both get our water from "Yorkshire Water", only live 20-25 miles appart and my tap water comes out at around pH 7, and now I'm cycling it has lifted to pH 8 - 8.2.
Do you find your tap water seems to have high nitrate levels? I have measured mine a few times and get readings anything in between 20ppm and 40ppm!!!

hi no my tap water has no nitrates at all it doesnt have any kH either im buffering the water with crushed coral in the filter
i wont be raising the pH from 6.0 just stabalizing it as im going to be keeping marbled hatchet fish and dwarf cichlids which all prefer soft acid water i have taken the last couple of months researching the fish i can keep as its a bad idea to change the water chemistry it could make the tank too unstable which will stress the fish too much

 

[jacko32]

Hi Jacko, if you are clearing 2ppm of ammonia to 0 ammonia and 0 nitrites in 8 hours, you are not fully cycled, but close to it, you need to bring your tank up to 4ppm of ammonia. Once you have cleared 4ppm of ammonia to 0 ammonia and 0 nitrites in 12 hours (or less) consistantly for 7-8 days that is when you can count yourself as cycled. As for the pH, it is true that the bacteria grow more slowley in a pH of 6.0 or less. However, it is not completely impossible to cycle a tank with a pH of 6, it would just take longer. If your pH is 6.0 coming out of your tap then you probably want to take measures to raise it, i.e baking soda if no fish are in the tank. For a longer term solution once you have fish in your tank you can add crushed coral to your filter to raise the pH. Most fish perfer water which is slightly alkaline, so around 7.2/7.4 (at least to my knowledge), so in the long run you will probably want to look into doing something to correct the pH. You can buy chemicals that do this, but using something like crushed coral, from what I hear, will provide a more consistent increase in pH which is what you want.

hi my tank is cycling around 5ppm in 12 hours maybe less now im just raising the kH not the pH because the fish im keeping prefer pH around 6.0 i have done about 2 months research on the fish from several sources marbled hatchet fish and most dwarf cichlids prefer soft acidic water so im quite pleased really.
its just a matter of getting the fish in and taking it from there now
thanks for the info