My Fishless Cycle!

[Ape-man]

Hi

I have been Fish-less cycling for a week now... Initially I was only testing ammonia, when that started dropping I started testing for Nitrite. Everything seems fairly normalish: Ammonia seems to be slowly dropping an nitrite slowly rising.

Now, my concern is that the ammonia seems to have plateaued at 2ppm, and Nitrite at 0.25ppm for the last few days! But even more concerning is that the Nitrate seems to have shot through the roof! Anyone got any ideas? Please help!


My other thread with other questions te be answered:
http/www.fishforums.net/index.php?/topic/312544-ideas-advice-suggestions-please/page__st__20

Thought I would add my results as I get them:

My tap water: Ammonia: 0ppm, Nitrite: 0ppm, Nitrate: 30ppm, pH: 7.6

Tank: No lights, 28-29 deg C, Fluval-U2 Filter(needs some more Bio-max, got some on order), couple of fake plants, will hopefully add some real ones once cycled!

Cycle started: 20th December 2009
Day1: Ammonia:0ppm, Nitrite:0ppm, Nitrate:0ppm, pH:7.4. Added 4ppm ammonia.
Day2: Ammonia:4ppm ~ water gone cloudy!
Day3: Ammonia:3-4ppm
Day4: Ammonia:3ppm
Day5: Ammonia:3ppm, Nitrite:0-0.25ppm ~ water cleared up.
Day6: Ammonia:2ppm, Nitrite:0.25ppm
Day7: Ammonia:2ppm, Nitrite:0.25ppm
Day8: Ammonia:2ppm, Nitrite:0.25ppm, Nitrate:20ppm, pH:8
Day9: Ammonia:2ppm, Nitrite:0.25ppm, Nitrate:30ppm
Day10: Ammonia:2ppm, Nitrite:0.25ppm ~ Still no change!
Day11: Ammonia:2ppm, Nitrite:0.4(ish)ppm ~ Yay, Nitrate is rising ... Boo, Ammonia isn't dropping!
Day12: Ammonia: 2ppm, Nitrite:0.4(ish)ppm
Day13: Away from home... HAPPY NEW YEAR!!
Day14: Away from home.. Still drunk!!
Day15: Ammonia: 2ppm, Nitrite:0.5ppm ~ Still no drop in ammonia, am I doing something wrong?
Day16: Ammonia:2ppm, Nitrite:0.5ppm, Nitrate:40ppm, pH:8 ~Turned air pump on to try and get some oxygen in their!
Day17: Ammonia:2ppm, Nitrite:0.5ppm, pH:8
Day18: Ammonia:2ppm, Nitrite:0.5ppm ~ Grrr still no change in my ammonia reading!!
Day19: Ammonia:2ppm, Nitrite:0.75ppm, pH;8.2
Day20: Ammonia:2ppm, Nirtite:1ppm
Day21am: Ammonia:2ppm, Nitrite:1ppm ~ Done 50% water change, ammonia down to 1ppm, added 2.5ml of ammonia.
Day21pm: Ammonia:4ppm, Nitrite:0.25ppm, pH:8.2
Day22: Ammonia:4ppm, Nitrite:0.25ppm, pH:8.2
Day23: Ammonia:4ppm, Nitrite:1ppm, pH:8.2
Day24: Ammonia:4ppm, Nitrite:1ppm, pH:8.2, Temp:29.3C, Got a new digi thermometer today.
Day23: Ammonia:4ppm, Nitrite:1.5ppm, pH:8
Day25: Ammonia:4ppm, Nitrite:1.5ppm, pH:8
Day26: Ammonia:4ppm, Nitrite:1.5ppm, pH:8
Day27: Ammonia:4ppm, Nitrite:2ppm, pH:8
Day28: Ammonia:4ppm, Nitrite:2ppm, pH:8
Day29: Ammonia:4ppm, Nitrite:1.5ppm, pH:8, Nitrate:40ppm, Temp: 28.3C ~ Strange drop in nitrite!! ... My last reading for 4 nights...
Day30: Holiday
Day31: Holiday
Day32: Holiday
Day33: Holiday
Day34: Ammonia:4ppm, Nitrite:0ppm, Nitrate 20ppm, pH:8, Temp: 27.3C ~ Where's all my Nitrite Gone???
Day35: Ammonia:4ppm, Nitrite:0ppm, pH:8, Temp: 28.9C
Day36: Ammonia:4ppm, Nitrite:0ppm, pH:8.2
Day37: Ammonia:4ppm, Nitrite:0ppm, pH:8
Day38: Ammonia:4ppm, Nitrite:0ppm, pH:8.2
Day39: Ammonia:4ppm, Nitrite:0ppm, pH:8.2
Day40: Ammonia:4ppm, Nitrite:0ppm, pH:8.2 ~ "filter booster" added
Day41: Ammonia:4ppm, Nitrite:0ppm, pH:8.2
Day42~Day48 Ammonia:4ppm, Nitrite:0ppm, pH8.2
Day49: 95% water change done, 2ppm Ammonia added, Nitrite:0ppm, pH 7.6
Day51~Day64: Ammonia:2ppm, Nitrite:0ppm, pH:7.6 NOTHING IS HAPPENING!!!!!

 

[drobbyb]

Any chance there is nitrate in your tap water?

If there is no nitrate in your tap water, then it must be from the nitrite processing into nitrate, although I've never seen a tank cycle in under a week without the addition of mature media. If that were the case, then there would be low levels of ammonia and nitrate however, not the reported 2ppm of ammonia. Maybe it was an erroneous test result? Which test kit are you using?

 

[rebrn]

The nitrAtes do seem a little high for you ammonia to be at 2ppm, I would test your tap water to see if you have nitrates in there. If you do then your actual result will be lower (ie. tap water has nitrates of 10 ppm then your tank has an additional 10 ppm of nitrates from the cycle and that would make sense). Also just as an FYI my ammonia sat at 2 ppm for about 2 weeks before it started to drop again.

 

[Ape-man]

Thanks Guys!

Here are my initial tank results...

Right, the results are in, this is the water in my tank now, straight from the tap, the only thing I have added is tap water conditioner and some filter boost (stresszyme)

The test kit I have used is API fresh water master test kit:

pH: 7.4, Nitrate: 0.0 ppm, Nitrite: 0.0ppm, Ammonia:0.0ppm (maybe a bit over, but less than 0.25ppm)

The only thing I have added since is some more StressZyme (filter booster), I know it isn't really rated and most people on here pretty much say it's crap, but I got it free with the tank so I thought I would use it.

I tested again last night and this morning and the results were both as follows:
Ammonia: 2ppm
NitrIte: 0.25ppm
NitrAte: 30ppm

I'll be honest I'm a little confused as to what is going on here...

As an additional test, I will test the water straight from the tap later and get back to you!

Also... Out of interest, does anyone in the Leeds area(Yorkshire, UK) have any mature filter media they fancy donating... Worth asking I suppose!

 

[OldMan47]

There is a list of donors maintained in a thread here Ape-man. I have a link to it in my signature area.

 

[Ape-man]

I have tested my tap water straight out of the tap, I am a little surprised at the level of Nitrate, is this normal?

Ammonia: 0ppm
Nitrite: 0ppm
Nitrate: 40ppm
pH: 7.0

I did the Nitrate test 3 times to make sure I wasn't getting it wrong. This may explain the strange results I have got recently, but doesn't explain my initial reading, unless this was a false reading,

 

[waterdrop]

Having nitrate(NO3) at 40ppm straight out of the tap is not all that uncommon, especially in UK, based on the threads we see here. All it means is that later on in the fishless cycle, when you take a peek to at NO3 to wonder if its being produced some, it would be seeing it go significantly on above 40 that would confirm that some is being produced by the N-Bacs. This early on, nitrate really won't tell you much.

Most people at one week of fishless cycling don't even see any drop in ammonia at all, so if you got some you might have been ahead of the game. Often it takes 2 weeks or so to see the first drop in ammonia from the dosed level (4-5ppm hopefully) down to zero ppm. Fishless cycles without mature media average 3 weeks to 2 months or more and the significant trends usually take a week or more of data to actually see, so at one week you really just don't have significant data to work with.

~~waterdrop~~

 

[Ape-man]

Hi all... Happy New Year to you all!

I am a little confused , If you see my readings above, my ammonia is just not moving, I was hoping that when I came back after the new year my ammonia would be nearly zero, but this is just not the case!! Am I doing something wrong, I am using the add and wait method from the following: http/www.fishforums.net/index.php?showtopic=113861
Up to press I have followed it to the letter with the exception of adding some "filter booster", but surely this would only have a positive effect!
My tank has no lights on and is currently about 29-30 deg C, (I don't know exactly, I broke the free stick-on thermometer last week trying to move it, but a new LCD one is on order) and the only things in the tank are: Water (surprisingly enough), filter (Hagen Fluval U2), heater (100W), substrate (black&white man-made stuff), a couple of plastic plants and a couple of resin rock ornaments, I haven't put the air-pump on yet, I have just set the filter to the mode that adds bubbles to the water jet, would more air aid the process?

... Or am I just being impatient!!!!

 

[waterdrop]

Its very common to read our posts and start thinking of a cycle as a "chemistry" process that will proceed predictably if you just follow all the rules, lol. In fact its mostly controlled by the random chance occurance of how many of two particular types of bacterial cells happen to be in your particular water supply and that varies wildly and causes huge differences in the initial speediness or slowness of a cycle.

Anyway, let's keep looking at details. What are the media types in your internal filter? Are we sure there's not any zeolite in there? (Zeolite usually appears as little white chips, often in a mesh bag or mixed with carbon.)

Also, what about your surface water flow? Have you been able to point the output of the filter up toward the surface to get some good surface movement? That will help to increase the overall oxygenation of the water and allow the filter to be pulling more highly oxygenated water past the bacteria.

~~waterdrop~~

 

[Ape-man]

Anyway, let's keep looking at details. What are the media types in your internal filter? Are we sure there's not any zeolite in there? (Zeolite usually appears as little white chips, often in a mesh bag or mixed with carbon.)

No, there isn't any zeolite in there, it is just a three stage filter: 1- Foam filter, 2- Poly/carbon cartridge filter & 3- Biomax, which is just porous ceramic for the bacteria to live (although the "cage" for the biomax is only half-full so I have just ordered some more)

Also, what about your surface water flow? Have you been able to point the output of the filter up toward the surface to get some good surface movement? That will help to increase the overall oxygenation of the water and allow the filter to be pulling more highly oxygenated water past the bacteria.

I have just re-angled the outlet spout to face upwards, when I put the light on, the water does look quite well oxygenated, i.e. there seem to be be a lot of little bubble in the water, I do have an air pump & airsone in the tank, I just haven't turned it on yet, would this help?

Thanks for your advice waterdrop.

 

[rebrn]

It won't hurt anything to turn the air pump on, I had them on all through my cycle. Looking at your reading thus far, you seem to be mirroring my cycle. I had a relatively quick drop from 4ppm to 2ppm ammonia early on, then sat with 2ppm of ammonia for a little over 2 weeks. I don't thing you are doing anything wrong, you are just playing the waiting game which I know can be frustrating, but your numbers look like they are right on track.

 

[Ape-man]

It won't hurt anything to turn the air pump on, I had them on all through my cycle. Looking at your reading thus far, you seem to be mirroring my cycle. I had a relatively quick drop from 4ppm to 2ppm ammonia early on, then sat with 2ppm of ammonia for a little over 2 weeks. I don't thing you are doing anything wrong, you are just playing the waiting game which I know can be frustrating, but your numbers look like they are right on track.

Thanks reburn... I'll turn that air pump on now. I am about to take some more readings, I'll update in 10 mins...!

 

[waterdrop]

Yes, the airstone can't hurt as it will also move water around at the surface where it gets more oxygen and will even help circulate some up from deeper depths. You can turn the airpump/airstone off at night if it disturbs your sleep, sometimes they are a bit noisy for people.

~~waterdrop~~

 

[Ape-man]

My Ammonia is still at 2ppm and has been for the last 12 days...
This is well frustrating!!!!

 

[waterdrop]

sheesh! At first I didn't think you had all the little details up in the first post log but on looking harder, they're there. I just don't see any errors jumping out and yet your stats seem awfully static... I assume your pH is still hanging way up there around 8 which, along with the 29C temp should be great. Your tank is not especially small at all and you have a very good filter. I assume you found one of the good ammonia types that most of the UK folks seem to find pretty easily and so its unlikely you've got weird ammonia messing you up. Even the tank in dark should be helping as these bacteria are photophobic. I would have really expected some better moving around of both the ammonia and nitrite numbers by 14 days or so, sigh. But its certainly no unheard of, as we've seem some 3 and even a 4 week wait for the first full drop to zero ppm, so unless someone can dream up some other thing for you to look at, I guess we just wait a while and eventually maybe perform a kickstart water change with ammonia recharge if we can't think of anything else.

~~waterdrop~~