my copper....imbellis

[bkk_group]

i'm a little slow sometimes, i admit i still have a lot of research to do when it comes to classing bettas but for some reason it never occured to me that my copper plakat was an imbellis i was surfing around on the net tonite and took a look at some other coppers out there, didn't take me long to realize that my long desired imbellis was there right in front of me, swimming around laughing at me.

i highlit the tell-tail red markings

some things really excite me sometimes, this betta "tahan" is one of them
ps, he is one of the hardest fish i have to photograph, you wouldn't believe how many shoddy pics i have of him, one of these days i'll get a good pic of him

 

[crimsontsavo]

I had a female that looked exactly like that...but red and blue I think. Did I have an imbellis ? She was a trooper and HUGE.

 

[White Whale]

Hold on there. What color are his gill plates? There should be two bars there. The red cresent on the caudal fin isn't exclusive to imbellis as once thought.

 

[bkk_group]

Hold on there. What color are his gill plates? There should be two bars there. The red cresent on the caudal fin isn't exclusive to imbellis as once thought.

i'm at work so i can't confirm the gill plates but more than one of the sites a visited called it a copper imbellis. my theory is that it is crossed with imbellis as copper colour isn't what you would find in the wild of course. still, to have a imbellis cross is still pretty cool.

 

[freshmike]

Hold on there. What color are his gill plates? There should be two bars there. The red cresent on the caudal fin isn't exclusive to imbellis as once thought.

GITTIM ITTY!!! YEE HAW!!!

 

[bkk_group]

cut and paste, interesting topic
"It is interesting that so far there is no splendens found by me
and friends in Betta sp. mahachai habitat. Some populations of
wildtype splendens and wild imbellis can tolerate salt since they can
be found in brackish water habitat too, so something must be going on
for Mahachai betta to be the only betta species/variety in its
habitat.

Other interesting point is that local betta arena breeder gurus
in Mahachai area seem to differentiate Mahachai betta and wildtype
splendens well. They call Mahachai betta "Pla par" [that means
"forest fish"] or "luk par" since they are generally found in Jak
forest [Jak is a type of palm-like plant that like barckish water] or
"Pla kiew" [= green fish], and call wildtype splendens "Pla rong",
"Pla tung" or "Luk rong" [[generally mean "ditch or field fish" since
they are found in canals, ditches, and fields generally further north]
or "Pla daeng" [= red fish]. They seems not to differentiate between
the wild imbellis from the south from wildtype splendens from the
north [they do say that fish from specific location is better at
fighting than others, but not restrict to species] since they refers
to both as "Pla daeng". They seem to use this knowledge to cross
Mahachai [Pla kiew] with wild splendens [Pla daeng] or fighting form
splendens to create faked Mahachai to fool careless arena opponents
[using stronger hybrid against real wild Pla kiew ].
Tony
anutej@loxinfo.co.th


Steffen Hellner wrote:
>
> I agree to your arguments. But the sp. Mahachai may be a tank bred hybrid
> form and then released. From this it is stable genetically (as stable as
> genetics can be - homocygotic to the edge of 99%). Genetic research will
> show in the nearer future.
>
> You are surely right with the wild type of splendens. I have a "wild" strain
> but it looks as it is not pure, too much color in it but stable phenotype
> over more than 10 years now. Not really aggressive, rather small and slender
> (depends much on nutrition), not too prolific. But a true wild one is hard
> to find and even more to get at hands.
>
> Steffen
>
> > Von: anutej@loxinfo.co.th
> > Antworten an: nanfa@aquaria.net
> > Datum: Thu, 18 Sep 2003 05:45:16 +0700
> > An: nanfa@aquaria.net
> > Betreff: Re: NANFA-- Bluenose shiner news [off topic]
> >
> > That is a good one. Nobody knows for 100% sure if Mahachai betta
> > is indeed a new species or originate from a variety evolved from
> > release of fighting-form bettas from ancient times. Mahachai area is
> > a hot spot for betta "arena" for hundred of years and both wild bettas
> > [wild splendens, wild imbellis and smaragdina] and fighting-form
> > bettas from all over the country have been brought into the area for
> > fighting/betting purpose [some would have been released]. Anyway real
> > Betta sp. Mahachai does exist in the wild and their outward appearance
> > seems to be consistent throughout their natural range, and they breed
> > true [F1 and F2 are similar to parents].
> > The copper variety is developed from crossing Mahachai betta X
> > domestic splendens and/or imbellis. They are not real wild Mahachai
> > betta. Also years ago [the practice is still committed] there are
> > Mahachai X imbellis betta cross sold as "Indo betta" and "real
> > Mahachai betta" [which it is not real]. These fishes cause lots of
> > coufusion to what real Beta sp. Mahachai actually is.
> > Generally wildtype Betta splendens is NOT what is shown in most
> > books. The big short thing is actually fighting-form splendens
> > [Plakadmor]developed for fighting purpose. Real wildtype splendens
> > [Plakadtung, Plakadluktung, Plakadpar] is much more slender and
> > smaller and the coloration seems to be more or less similar throughout
> > their range.
> > I wonder if fighting-form betta is released into Betta
> > sp.Mahachai habitat will they be fit enough to survive and spawn with
> > Betta sp. Mahachai in such freechoice situation. Channa striata and
> > Channa gachua do live in Mahachai betta's home and would be happy to
> > deal with short, fat stuff that is released there.
> > BTW if a fish is originated from natural hybrid of a few species
> > and evolves over time in the wild till the phenotype is fixed
> > [descendants's appearances are more or less uniform] in the wild
> > should it be regarded as a morph, variety or species?"
> >
> > Tony
> > anutej@loxinfo.co.th>

 

[bkk_group]

ok, so we have determined that he is a x, probably imbellis/spendens, i let myself get carried away late last night and rushed the verdict without stepping back and thinking. i did look at his gill covers and while i could not see any iridenscent blue or green double bars on his gills neither could i see the red bars indicating spendens (that could be due to his rust coloured hue of course). i guess when i think about it i never thought of him as a pure "wild" imbellis to begin with as finding those is indeed next to impossible unless you mail order from thailand. i am actively sourcing my contacts here on the west coast though in hopes of acquiring a pair to breed. like you itty, i would love to breed pure imbellis or smaragdina, there is something about them i desire, greatly. when i think of bettas my first thought is always to the pla kat. i have some beautiful "show quality" crown-tails and super deltas etc. but the true gems that excite me in ways no other fish can right now are my blue-mustard gas splendens and my copper x. i read your post in the other thread and you are right on, lets bring the wild back to the forefront.
check this qoute i lifted: "My next project is to collect all remaining wild betta in Thailand and breed them on commercial scale in order to preserve those strains from being extinct. I hope I can start doing this in 2002".
the site is www.atisonbetta.com
while i doubt he can do it and i question the commercial aspect of it all it seems others are waking up to the realization that if we are not careful the pure wild form will one day disappear.

 

[White Whale]

Pretty soon, the pure form will be in demand because it will be on the endangered species list. Imagine having the last Adam & Eve of a species? You'll have to rename yourself Noah. Still, the pure imbellis and short-fin splendens (plakats) are beautiful AS IS!