My Blue Ram (Mikrogeophagus.ramirezi) Breeding Log

[Dominus_XVIII]

Hi everyone,

Took some time off, as the past couple years haven't been too good for me.
Personal stuff aside -


Monday - July.26th,2016 (10:20pm)

Brought this lil guy home yesterday (around 8:00pm) and acclimated him to my 20 gallon breeder (which is currently housing my female blue ram and female EBR). Trying to grow some clippings from my main tank as well (Java fern, narrow leaf ludwigia, and Hygro.polysperma)
Immediately after introducing him to my tank, the 3 fish began a flirt-fest and the new male paired off with my female blue ram. Fast forward to this morning, The pair has cleaned off a piece of black slate, and the male has dug a pit. The female's egg tube in starting to extend, and she's beginning to get plump.
Happened to snap a few quick shots with my phone. I apologize for the poor quality, bad lighting and algae growing on my tank walls (camera couldn't focus). I will get better pics, once I've done some maintenance on the tank and relocate the lone female EBR. Pics really don't do justice for the pair, the colours and finnage on the male are really stunning in person. Love how high the male's dorsal ray extends, can kinda see it in picture #2 & 3.

Wednesday- July.27th, 2016 (10:17pm)

Quick update with some awesome news!
(The female EBR has been moved to a separate tank)
 
The ram pair just started laying eggs on the piece of slate in their tank.
These are some early shots, the pair is still laying and fertilizing. Eggs looking good so far, hope everything goes well (The waiting game begins).

Thursday- July.28th,2016 (12:52am)

Can see eyes and spines slowly developing
Keep you guys posted

 
 
Thursday- July.28th,2016 (6:17pm)
 
Got some bad news guys. Just got home to discover my female eating the eggs. Over half of them are gone, all of them looked viable too

I'll have to wait for another batch, will keep everyone posted.
 
 
Sunday- July.31st,2016
The pair are still new to each other and this was their first time breeding. Hopefully the second round goes better for them.

 

[Akasha72]

it will take them a few attempts but they'll get there. What I would say is to not disturb them too much. If they think their offspring are under threat then they will eat them themselves rather allow any other preditor to do it. 
 
Next time they spawn try not to hang around the tank too much - maybe pop a towel over it if it's in a busy area of the house. Just disturb them to feed them and no more. Sometimes they just want to be left alone and whilst it's exciting to watch them spawn and raise young for us, for them it's just normal behaviour and sometimes they don't want us hanging about watching them

 

[betta fish]

Very nice, I would love to get a pair of these one day, good luck on future spawns!

 

[Dominus_XVIII]

it will take them a few attempts but they'll get there. What I would say is to not disturb them too much. If they think their offspring are under threat then they will eat them themselves rather allow any other preditor to do it. 
 
Next time they spawn try not to hang around the tank too much - maybe pop a towel over it if it's in a busy area of the house. Just disturb them to feed them and no more. Sometimes they just want to be left alone and whilst it's exciting to watch them spawn and raise young for us, for them it's just normal behaviour and sometimes they don't want us hanging about watching them

 
Will do

 

[cooledwhip]

wow nice. do you have to buy them as  a breeding pair or will they eventually pair off? I have a pair now in my 20 breeder and was thinking of putting them in their own tank to try breeding. They haven't seemed to be attracted to one another in the 20 though.

 

[Akasha72]

cooledwhip ... all cichlids choose their own mate. It is possible to put a male and a female into a tank and they like the look of each other and they pair up - I did it with my rams and curviceps (back in the days before I understood about them choosing their own mate) but these 'forced' pairings can go wrong. It's possible for them to spawn a few times and then to have a falling out. Worse case scenario is one of the pair ends up dead.
 
If you want a truely bonded pair it's best to add half a dozen to a tank and wait for a pair to naturally occur. Obvious this then leaves you with 4 'spares' so it's important to have a back up plan for those fish - re-homing or seperate tank(s) 

 

[Dominus_XVIII]

cooledwhip ... all cichlids choose their own mate. It is possible to put a male and a female into a tank and they like the look of each other and they pair up - I did it with my rams and curviceps (back in the days before I understood about them choosing their own mate) but these 'forced' pairings can go wrong. It's possible for them to spawn a few times and then to have a falling out. Worse case scenario is one of the pair ends up dead.
 
If you want a truely bonded pair it's best to add half a dozen to a tank and wait for a pair to naturally occur. Obvious this then leaves you with 4 'spares' so it's important to have a back up plan for those fish - re-homing or seperate tank(s) 

 
X2

wow nice. do you have to buy them as  a breeding pair or will they eventually pair off? I have a pair now in my 20 breeder and was thinking of putting them in their own tank to try breeding. They haven't seemed to be attracted to one another in the 20 though.

 
Unless the store you're buying them from is selling pairs or there happens to be a bonded pair (even if this is the case, sometimes moving to a new environment can cause a pair to split a part), it's best to allow the cichlids to choose their own mate.
 
In my case, I bought the male when he was in breeding dress (from an all male tank), and introduced him to my existing just female tank (where my female blue ram was already beginning to develop eggs). I was just fortunate enough that they decided to choose eachother, but only after courting with the other female in the tank as well. I'm also fortunate enough, that my pair has remained bonded.
 
If you really want a pair, I'd keep what Akasha said in mind, as it's the truth and will lead to the best possible outcome.

 

[Dominus_XVIII]

Hmmm...Kinda have a dilemma on my hands.
I'm planning to sell my younger bonded pair of rams tomorrow afternoon (not the pair in this thread), and just discovered that they've bred (laid eggs on a piece of Indian almond leaf I have in the tank). Turned off the lights for the day and locked the door, to ensure no one goes into the room to disturb them.
 
The buyer is really interested in the pair, and we've ready planned meet tomorrow. Thinking about asking the current buyer if he's willing to hold off for a while (to see if the eggs hatch and the parents raise the fry), or continue with the sale and artificially raise the eggs/fry myself.
Any suggestions?
 
On other news, back to the pair in this thread:
 
They are starting to clean off the slate rock in my tank again, and the male is beginning to dig new pits. Will make sure to give them their privacy this time around.

 

[Akasha72]

hmm well the only problem I can forsee is that the eggs turn fungus'd because the parents arn't there to fan them and take care of them. I would be tempted to ask the buyer to wait until the fry makes it to free swimming stage ... if you can that far you have better chances of removing the parents and raising the fry yourself

 

[Dominus_XVIII]

hmm well the only problem I can forsee is that the eggs turn fungus'd because the parents arn't there to fan them and take care of them. I would be tempted to ask the buyer to wait until the fry makes it to free swimming stage ... if you can that far you have better chances of removing the parents and raising the fry yourself

 
I see. I'll message him early this afternoon to see if he's willing to wait on the pair.

 

[Dominus_XVIII]

The second pair's eggs ended up growing fungus. The pair began to bicker against eachother when guarding the nest. Not really taking turns, but fighting for it. The eggs ended up not getting fanned enough and went bad. Pretty sad to see how the female's behavior changed, once she realized the eggs went bad and watched the male dispose of them.
The female only just reached maturity, and it was both they first time spawning, so they probably didn't have enough experience. Hopefully the learn to spawn successfully for the buyer. The buyer has agreed to hold off for 1 week.
 
Back to my main pair. They spawned again, and this time with a little bit more eggs. Threw a towel over the tank before they spawned to give them some privacy and a sense of security. Peaked in just to feed them, and noticed the male has taken on the role of fanning and guarding the nest more seriously. Even when they swapped places, the male kept near the nest and ignored some of the pellets left by my female.
Hopefully the female feels more comfortable this time around, and doesn't decide to eat the eggs. I also think the male may have not fertilized the eggs properly during their last spawn, which also could have made the female eat the eggs. Noticed the male trying to fertilizing the eggs again when he switches with the female to fan them. Will update you guys, if things go better with these eggs

 

[Akasha72]

the parents should pick off any unfertilized eggs and so if they thought they were all unfertilized that may be why they ate them
 
Fingers crossed for this spawn

 

[Dominus_XVIII]

Peaked at the nest today when I fed my pair, and noticed all the eggs are still there

Reach the 24 hour mark, fingers crossed.

 

[Akasha72]

great news. Just leave them in peace as much as you can and I'll cross fingers for another 24 hours

 

[Dominus_XVIII]

great news. Just leave them in peace as much as you can and I'll cross fingers for another 24 hours

 
Went to feed the pair this morning and noticed all the eggs were gone...
 
 
What I saw instead was the male guarding a clusters of wigglers in the pit he dug at the back of their tank

Not exactly sure how many there were, but my initial count of their nest was about 180-200.
Will continue to give the pair their privacy and see if they can raise the fry to free swimmers
They seem to have gotten switching shifts down pretty well.
Keep you guys updated.