My Anacharis Plants Are Dying

[thrujenseyes]

Hello,
 
I'm still new here and unsure if I'm posting in the correct place...
Sorry.
 
But my anacharis plants are getting "clear" losing color and some leaves are falling off.
 
I haven't yet started the cycling (fishless) yet as I'm waiting on my heater (should be here within a day or so).
I have amonnia and my master test kit all ready to go though.
 
I never removed the metal banding on the bottom of the plants as the guy at fish place told me that it helps to keep them rooted.  But I've read on line to remove them?! 
 
Should I cut the bottoms and peel some leaves and try to dig into the substrate?!
 
Should the added amonnia (when I start the cycling) help the plants?
 
I keep the lights on for about 8 hours a day....should I do more? 
 
The tank is in a large room that fills with sunlight but is not in direct light.   So I do use the tank light for about 8 hours at night.
 
I have one stowaway asassin snail that must have come from the plants and just noticed another teeeeeeeeny one last night.
 
I have tried to feed the snail some freeze dried shrimp by rooting in the bottom but he (snail) let the shrimp rot?!
 
Any help would be greatly appreciated and also let me know if I'm posting in the incorrect place.
 
Thank you!
 
Jen
 

 

[LyraGuppi]

Anacharis does tend to shed alot, is it the whole plant dying or just a few leaves?

 

[thrujenseyes]

Anacharis does tend to shed alot, is it the whole plant dying or just a few leaves?

 
it looks like just the lower half of the plants.  the top half still looks green and healthy

 

[Byron]

I have a few comments on this, starting with the Anacharis itself.  This plant, whose scientific name is Egeria densa, prefers cooler temperatures than what is found in the normal community tropical aquarium, and frequently will fall apart within a few weeks if kept at warmer temperatures. A closely-related species, Egeria najas, does very well in normal aquarium temperatures (optimum 15-26C/60-79F) but is rarely available.  When I was growing up (five decades ago) and we had goldfish, this was the plant most often kept floating in goldfish bowls/tanks because it does well in room temperature and needs less light and nutrients than most stem plants.
 
You can leave the metal band on, though I prefer removing these and recommend it.  This will allow you to separate the stems a bit, which helps.  This applies to all stem plants.  Lower leaves may still die, but the spread of this as you describe here suggests the temperature issue.
 
I may be able to suggest some suitable plants if you could provide data on the lighting (be specific), tank size and water parameters (especially the GH and pH).
 
On the cycling, if you plant the tank first, do not add any ammonia.  While this can certainly work, it is easy to provide sufficient ammonia to kill the plants.  I have for many years now "silent cycled" all my tanks, and I have a fish room with seven currently running.  If the tank is planted, and you include some faster-growing species, you do not need to go through any "cycling" but add a few small fish and increase gradually.  Ammonia and nitrite will never be above zero (using our test kits, I have never seen either in 20+ years of doing this) so there is no harm to the fish.  The reason this works is that plants need nitrogen, and prefer it in the form of ammonia/ammonium, and they can take up a fair bit, at least whatever is produced by a few fish.
 
Fast-growing plants includes the stem plants, but especially floating plants.  Again, I will suggest some that will work once I know your lighting.  You will likely need a liquid fertilizer, a complete one, and we can discuss that too.
 
Byron.

 

[thrujenseyes]

Oh wow Byron...that was a lot of info!! Awesome but I may get lost along the way...
Forgive me, I'm new to this after many years being away from the hobby.
This is my teeny little set up:

6-Gallon Fluval Edge
Filtration: 100 gph 3-stage mechanical, chemical and biological filtration.
Lighting: 21 LED lighting system (7600K high-luminosity LEDs with 18 White LEDS and 3 Blue LEDs).
Capacity: 6 gallons.
Dimensions: Total dimension measures 16.875" x 10.25" x 14.5" high. The Fluval Edge aquarium measures 16.875" x 10.25" x 8.75" high.

And as mentioned I have two of those plants along with one plant that's fastened to a rock. Sorry... Not sure what it is. Pretty bright green pear shaped leaves sprouting out of a rooted base that's tied to a rock. (I know how idiotic that sounds).

And the two snails that "pooped up"

I'd greatly appreciate any and all help give and recommendations.

Oh I've yet to test the water as I thought I had to cycle first and I'm not ready yet since I don't have a heater (should be here today or Monday.

I should and will test my tap water to see what it is.

I'm on a private well.

Thanks!!

 

[Byron]

That helps, thanks for the data.
 
The light I will assume is fine; I've no experience with LED, but from what you've mentioned I think you're OK.  Eight hours a day as you previously mentioned should be good.
 
The plant is most likely an Anubias.  The thick "stem" from which the leaves and fine hair-like roots grow is called the rhizome; this must not be buried or it may rot, so it is normally attached to wood or rock.  This is a slow-growing plant and thus low light and low nutrient requiring.  I would stay with similar as you are more likely of success.  So avoid stem plants.  A nice plant for planting in the substrate should be pygmy chain sword, or Corkscrew Vallisneria.  If your water is on the hard side, as I am suspecting it might be if well (though not always so), Vallisneria will do very well.  You can Google images to see what these plants look like.  A nice floating plant is also useful, and helps a lot with cycling as I previously indicated.  Water Sprite is one of my favourites; once established it will get large but it produces daughter plants on the alternate leaves and these can be pulled off as new plants and the parent plant discarded as needed.  Water Lettuce is another floater.
 
On the tap water, you can find out the GH and pH from your municipal water authority, probably on their website.  You won't need a GH test kit once you know the GH, so try them first.  A pH kit is useful to have though.  When testing tap water pH, you have to out-gas the CO2 or the result may not be accurate.  Put some fresh tap water in a covered jar and shake it very briskly for a couple minutes, then test.  You don't need to do this when testing tank water for pH.
 
Byron.

 

[thrujenseyes]

I googled the plants and yes, my rock plant is in fact Anubias and it's very cool (sure hope it lives and thrives).
 
Out of the others you mentioned I really like the look of the Water Sprite and will look for that once my tank is cycled and well.
 
As for the cycled part.  Can you maybe pass along a link or some more info on what you were talking about with the "silent cycle" as you mentioned.  
 
I'm learning I not only need a love for fish but I should have probably gotten a chemistry degree and also one in botany.  Did I mention I was a pretty poor student back in the day (way back).
 
What can I do to save the anacharis that are looking a bit pathetic at the moment?  I'll undo the metal hinge at bottom and maybe cut off the dying parts and put back into tank...?!  dig down into substrate?
All that I've read on that plant says they're hardy (basically idiot proof)...and here I am, killing it.  But growing snails.  ha

 

[Byron]

I googled the plants and yes, my rock plant is in fact Anubias and it's very cool (sure hope it lives and thrives).
 
Out of the others you mentioned I really like the look of the Water Sprite and will look for that once my tank is cycled and well.
 
As for the cycled part.  Can you maybe pass along a link or some more info on what you were talking about with the "silent cycle" as you mentioned.  
 
I'm learning I not only need a love for fish but I should have probably gotten a chemistry degree and also one in botany.  Did I mention I was a pretty poor student back in the day (way back).
 
What can I do to save the anacharis that are looking a bit pathetic at the moment?  I'll undo the metal hinge at bottom and maybe cut off the dying parts and put back into tank...?!  dig down into substrate?
All that I've read on that plant says they're hardy (basically idiot proof)...and here I am, killing it.  But growing snails.  ha

 
You can cut off the dead bits and trim off the lower leaves on the cut stems, a couple inches, then poke those into the gravel and possibly hold down with a small stone.  It may or may not thrive.  It is true that this plant is said to be "easy," but that is a matter of opinion.
 
On the cycling, I will explain how it works, as I am not familiar with an article, though there must be some.  Diana Walstad has written a book and several articles and always advocate this method, though she insists on dirt under a layer of sand and I would not advise that.  But the "silent cycle" works whatever the substrate.
 
The aim is to plant as heavily as you intend.  And some of the plants need to be fast-growing.  This is because the faster a plant grows, the more nutrients it needs, including nitrogen.  Most aquatic plants take up ammonia produced by the fish as their preferred form of nitrogen, and plants that are fast growing use quite a bit.  This means that you can have a few fish right from the start, with no harm because ammonia is so quickly taken up.  The nitrifying bacteria will still establish normally, and grab some of the ammonia, but this will be much less than what the plants take up.  And the plants of course do not produce nitrite, and there is no lengthy waiting period before they take up the ammonia as it appears.
 
Plants like Anubias are slow-growing by comparison, so they use less nutrients including ammonia.  This is why it is recommended to have faster-growing plants, and none grow faster than floating plants.  Floating plants have the aerial advantage; their leaves at or sometimes slightly above the surface can readily take in CO2 from the air.  There is considerably more CO2 in the air than in the aquarium water, so plants can get more of it; and on top of this, the uptake of CO2 from air is about four times faster than it is from the water.  And the light over the tank is strong enough to drive photosynthesis.
 
I would wait until you have the plants you want, and get them growing.  A good liquid complete fertilizer will help this.  I use Seachem's Flourish Comprehensive Supplement for the Planted Aquarium.  A small bottle will last months, as you use very little.  Once the floating plants particularly are obviously growing, it will be time to add the first few fish.
 
As an example of how effective this is, my 20g quarantine tank.  This tank is planted with plant culls from the main tank, and it runs permanently but without any fish.  When I acquire new fish, they go into this tank.  I put more than 30 small fish in this tank about six weeks ago, and they thrived from day one.  They are now in the main tank, and the 20g is again fishless.  It is always interesting how the plants improve a couple weeks after fish are in the tank, and this of course is due to the increase in ammonia.
 
I should explain about ammonia/ammonium.  I used the word ammonia above so the scenario would make sense, but plants actually need ammonium.  In acidic water, ammonia basically changes into ammonium on its own, and quickly.  I won't go into the chemistry about ions and such to explain how this works, but it does.  In basic water (pH above 7) plants take up the ammonia directly and internally change it into ammonium.  Some they use as ammonia, for other purposes that I needn't bog this down with.  Suffice it to say, the uptake of ammonia/ammonium by fast-growing plants is substantial, and provided the intial fish are not too many or too large, there can be no "cycling" issues.
 
Feel free to ask if you have any questions.

 

[thrujenseyes]

Ok, I took the plants out and trimmed the bottoms and took off dying leaves. Dug into gravel. Hopefully they'll survive....and thrive but if not, I now (thanks to you) know some other options!

That silent cycle idea is pretty darn awesome but I really don't plan on a heavily planted tank. I want to have space. And I'm not working with much being a teeny 6 gallon.
I wish I could post a pic but all my files are too large and I've yet to try and shrink some down to post.

And being an "edge" aquarium there is no surface space (water goes all the way to top and is covered (like a cube).
And you mentioned plants needing air space at top.

I'm going to try the ammonia cycle thingy and cross my fingers and toes.

I very much appreciate your time and expertise!!

 

[jag51186]

Something I've always wondered about these fluval edge aquariums...since you count on the surface movement and such of water to rid it of co2. How does this work in a completely enclosed system??

Also I thought about using an Edge for a shrimp and endler's tank, but I think working inside of it would drive me nuts lol...But they look really cool!!

 

[thrujenseyes]

Something I've always wondered about these fluval edge aquariums...since you count on the surface movement and such of water to rid it of co2. How does this work in a completely enclosed system??

Also I thought about using an Edge for a shrimp and endler's tank, but I think working inside of it would drive me nuts lol...But they look really cool!!

hopefully someone will answer that first question because I have no idea!

The opening doesn't bother me so much as I can get in and out of there without many issues. It's definitely more of a pain but I'll take that because I adore the look of it.

 

[fluttermoth]

Something I've always wondered about these fluval edge aquariums...since you count on the surface movement and such of water to rid it of co2. How does this work in a completely enclosed system??

Also I thought about using an Edge for a shrimp and endler's tank, but I think working inside of it would drive me nuts lol...But they look really cool!!

It's not completely enclosed; the lid has a mesh top, and there's a small square of open water under that. My son had the Edge in his bedroom for about three years, with six or seven male Endlers and couple of ghost shrimps, and it was a really nice set up, once I'd learnt that I couldn't just stick my hand in, to prune or replant, without taking some water out first! I'm planning on setting it back up for a dwarf puffer at some point...

 

[thrujenseyes]

 

Something I've always wondered about these fluval edge aquariums...since you count on the surface movement and such of water to rid it of co2. How does this work in a completely enclosed system??

Also I thought about using an Edge for a shrimp and endler's tank, but I think working inside of it would drive me nuts lol...But they look really cool!!

It's not completely enclosed; the lid has a mesh top, and there's a small square of open water under that. My son had the Edge in his bedroom for about three years, with six or seven male Endlers and couple of ghost shrimps, and it was a really nice set up, once I'd learnt that I couldn't just stick my hand in, to prune or replant, without taking some water out first! I'm planning on setting it back up for a dwarf puffer at some point...
 

Wait flutter moth....
your son had 6 or 7 male endless..AND couple ghost shrimp?!?  Isn't that too much for this teeny tank?!  It did well?!
I thought I could only have maybe 4 fish (endler size) and maybe 2 shrimp?!
 
And lol on the sticking your hand in without removing any water.  That was my first mistake as well...mess!

 

[fluttermoth]

Male Endlers are very small fish; most are barely an inch long, and they're slim bodied; not chubby, like a cherry barb or black widow tetra.

That means they produce very little waste. Shrimps also produce very little waste, so you can keep a few more things, if you pick things that are very tiny and that don't make much mess

As long as you do plenty of water changes (I always do 50% weekly on my tanks), a stocking like that can work very well. The only reason we didn't keep it running was that the fish and shrimps started dying of old age (he'd had it running for about four years by then), and my son decided he didn't want the responsibility of taking on anything more

 

[thrujenseyes]

Good to know!!! And yes they sure are super tiny (endlers).
So you did a 50 % water change weekly on the little edge? (Once it was all properly cycled).