More Gasping

[EMSB6]

Fish trying are gasping...

Hi -
I'm new here, and painfully ignorant regarding aquariums, fish, the consequences of being a bleeding heart, etc. (Hee. I'll explain that later.) I think I'm having a problem similar to Sasha's.

Anyway, you've answered question #1 already. I don't keep the same hours as the tank, so I wasn't really sure if I was seeing symptoms of a problem, or this was normal behavior.

I have a 120 gallon tank. (Bleeding heart.) I would guess there's about 100 gallons in it now. This is the current population, although with the mortality rate, (another question) that changes weekly, except for a few die-hards.

1. 1 RES - She's/He's about 6" at her/his longest point.
2. 1 Plecostomus - She's 8" or so - I bought her when I got Charlotte/Carlos.
3. 4 Unreasonably large (4"x6") fish that resemble goldfish. Originally purchased for feeders, - Charlotte is too lazy (or well fed?) to bother eating anything she has to chase. I've had these guys for about 6 months.
4. 1 Snowflake Eel. (Bleeding heart again.) About 14" long. She was given to me by the clerk at the pet store as she was injured.
5. 12 or so Danios. (Mixed type) Also failed feeders. Some are less than a month in tank, some up to 2 months.
6. 2 Albino Catfish. Not sure I have the name correct. They're a light peach color with dark orange fins that are similar to a shark's. About 1 month in tank.
7. 1 Male Betta. About 1 month. I put him in his own bowl yesterday because of all this. He's #5. Esme (the eel) goes berserk over bettas. She's eaten 4 already, so I was worried.
8. 12 or so Guppies. Some were born here. Smile.
9. 4 very tiny fry. I don't know what they are; I never could figure out who was having them... They're about a month old.
10. 6 Snails (Mixed) Lots of eggs, but they never hatch.
11. 4 Platys. A month.
12. 6 assorted: Neon Tetra, some barb-looking ones, Mollies, and a strange yellow-orange guy that was in the bag with Esme when we got home.
11. 1 Obnoxious Gourami. About a month.

Aeration:
1. Profile Aquarium Air Pumps #4000 (2 of these attached to bars)

Filtering:
1. Fluval 303*
2. Fluval 4 Plus (2 of these)
3. Duetto Model DJ 100*
4. Penguin Power Sponge Filter (170 GPH)*
5. Penguin Power Head #1160 (2 of these)
6. Aqualife Undergravel filter setup. Basically useless, as I can't figure out how to keep the plates in place, or the gravel from getting under them.
* = cleaned and refilled less than 1 week ago.

Chemistry: This as of yesterday, from the pet store.
pH - 7.0
Ammonia - No
Nitrite - Off the scale. Particularly disturbing as the sample was taken 3 hours after removing and replacing 30 gallons reverse osmosis that had been let stand 24 hours.

I have a mixture of epoxy-coated gravel, polished glass and garden-variety rocks on the bottom. I've only put in about a third of what's required yet because weird things keep happening. Lots of plants and the temperature is consistently 78 to 80 degrees. There's some algae here and there, but not a problem. I feed reptile sticks, Goldfish and Tropical fish flakes, Cichlid food, bloodworms, shrimp, and silversides. Everyone eats everybody else's food, though. (Esme feeds herself...)

That's it, I think. I have more filters and pumps, but the water is very clear and things seemed to be getting a little busy anyway. I've only replaced water once or twice. There's a lot of evaporation and I've been adding about 10 gallons reverse osmosis per week.

Esme is a very heavy sleeper, but 3 days ago I found her "sleeping" upside-down with her mouth wide open and her lungs going like bellows. Ack. Didn't look right to me, but I had no idea what to do so I just sat and watched her. It took about an hour, but she returned to normal. She seemed to be okay, but I bottled the 30 gallons just in case.

She did this again the next evening after her usual "romping" thing around the tank. She does this as soon as she wakes up. This happened again later at night, so I replaced the water and decided to take a sample in the next day. (I have an ammonia card and pH kit, but I couldn't think of anything else to do.) I also cleaned all the mess out from under the filter plate with the fewest rocks on it. It was very, very dirty and made such a mess of the water I thought I should let things settle before lifting another one. When I got the test results, I added the recommended amount of Turtle Clean.

I made a point of getting up to check on her this morning. Not good. She was draped over one of the baskets I keep plants in that's attached to the side of the tank, upside-down, mouth open, etc. Then I looked at everyone else. The Goldfish-things were gasping at the surface, as were all the little guys. (Guppies, Platys, etc.) Even the catfish. Pola was laying on the bottom and breathing very heavily. She kept jumping to the top of the tank, partially out of the water. She had been doing this the night before, but I thought she was having some sort of game...

Of course Charlotte was sleeping peacefully, and the Gourami didn't seem to care, but nobody else even wanted to eat. I sat and watched Esme and suddenly remembered that, hoping to give everybody a rest, I had turned off the air pumps and power heads about 4 hours ago. I turned everything back on.

Everyone got better, small fish first, then Goldfish-things and Pola. But Esme took over an hour. I was sure she would die.

I'm worried because the water change didn't help. I don't know how nitrites and oxygen interact, or if they do. Were they lacking oxygen, or the ability to use it? Was it caused by the nitrites or something else? Did turning things off aggravate the situation, or is there something else that's very wrong and getting worse? Is this related to sleeping? I noticed a question about cycling. I'm guessing that is something that happens when the tank is new. I've had the tank about 5 months, so that probably isn't a factor...? What is the reason for turning the lights off?

Oh. I was going to post this as a separate question, but maybe it's related. Most of the Danios, Platys and Guppies get what looks like gill irritation. All red and raw, the way children do when they have colds. Some have it sporadically, some constantly and a few just never have it. They're also the ones with the excessive mortality. (60 - 75%) The person at the pet store said Charlotte and Esme were eating them, but I really don't think so. Esme does, but she can only eat so many. I'm starting to think they die and get eaten afterward by Charlotte and the Goldfish-things. I almost never find any bodies.

Thank you for plowing through this thing. I hope this isn't more than you needed to know... But anything anyone can think of would be a help. I live in Carlsbad, California if anyone knows of a knowledgeable retailer. (5 Petcos within a 4 mile radius... Grrr.)

Thanks,
Eva.

 

[fat bob]

You said you are complete novice so I tried to make my answer as comprehensive as possible. It sounds a little patronising but it's not intended that way. I have been keeping tropicals for 2 years and have only recently joined the board myself.

I don't know if everyone else would agree with me but I would say the high nitrite levels are due to either

- the undergravel system working only partially and simply collecting all the uneaten food and waste into the plate rather than filtering it through.

- the tank is not yet established enough and requires time to cultivate the nessacary bacteria on the filter medium

Or

- You are cleaning the pump filter medium in fresh water, thereby killing off all the bacteria that the tank needs

I would suggest loosing the undergravel plates immedietly as they don't favour plecs and cat's as they are bottom dwellers (or so I am told). It sounds as though you have ample filtration anyway.

stop adding fish

No matter how many fish die there is no point in adding more until you get the water right.

All the fish hanging at the surface and gill irritation are almost cirtainly symptoms of an internal bacterial infection caused usually by stress and/or poor water quality.Which is probably due to the elevated nitrites as this will increase internal bacterial levels. You should be able to buy an anti internal bacteria addetive at your local fish shop to alleviate these symptoms now but I think you need to alter your tank husbandry in the longer term.

You may be feeding too much, veriety in diet is good but feed little and often, about 3 times a day I find is best and resist the temptation to keep adding food to ensure that all the fish get some. Dont give meat every day to encourage the fish to eat a balanced diet. Do you get sinking algae wafers over there ? If they're not common try to source some, my fish love em and they hold their cohesion at the bottom for a couple of hours and make feeding time last more than just a few seconds !

Do you have a tank vaccum ? If not cut the bottom off a 1litre plastic bottle and cork the top, drill a hole in the cork and insert about 2-3 metres of hose/wide tubing. To use simply put a bucket on the floor and the open bottom of the bottle in the gravel then suck on the hose until the water begins to siphon, and move the bottle around in the gravel whilst agitating to release the ####e, gravity should do the rest ! This should allow you to remove all of the waste without disturbing the fish too much. When your bucket is full squeeze out your foam filter medium in this tank water, this will allow the bacteria the tank needs to effectively operate the cycling process to stay in the filters. If you have been washing them under taps your tank may not have entered that stage even at 5 months.

Change approx 30-40 % of your water in this way now and then about 10-20% on a weekly basis for about a month this should balance all of your levels nicely, although with alarge tank this may take 2 or 3 months. Once balance is achived change 25% every fortnight.

Arrange tank furniture to give you maximum access when cleaning, and try having 1 or 2 area's with no more than 5 or 6mm of gravel and introduce all food in those area's reducing the ammount of food getting missed. Feed little and often.

Do you have live plant or artificial ? Live is better for a healthy balanced tank using plug timers for lights also helps the fish settle down as they are more comfortable (I find) with a routine plus make your life easier if you do not keep same hours as the tank. The lights must be off for at least 12 hours a day to promote plant and fish growth. Plants need to rest (some close at night) and fish need to sleep. Also too much light produces a hairlike 'black algae' over everything.

Do you have ample heaters ? What is the temp reading after 12 hours of darkness ? The lights give off a considerable ammount of heat and if your heaters aren't up to the job, when they go out the temp could drop up to several degrees overnight, this will seriously stress your fish.

Finally never turn the pumps off ! as soon as the water stops moving it starts stagnating, there must be sufficient surface agitation to prevent this.

Well thats about all I can offer, hope it helps.

Welcome to the forum !!

 

[reg2k2]

Were they lacking oxygen, or the ability to use it?

I'd say yes to both, nitrites can affect the ability of the blood to carry oxygen.
As above, Never turn off the filtration, with perhaps the exception of performing maintenance. The filters, powerheads are providing gas exchange (incl. oxygen) thru movement of the surface. Lots of plants could account for a lack of O2 at night, when I believe they take it in rather than produce it.

In regards to the undergravel...was it made for a 120gal?? They should normally cover the entire floor...I don't know that you can rig a smaller plate to work. And does 'a third of the required substrate' cover the plate? This constitutes the filter media (where beneficial bacteria grows) for an undergravel.

I noticed a question about cycling. I'm guessing that is something that happens when the tank is new. I've had the tank about 5 months, so that probably isn't a factor...?

Yes. This should explain.
I'll agree it's possible if the filter's haven't been allowed to mature. "Cleaned and refilled"---with new media?

I'm not sure here, overstocking may be an issue. I think it could account for the nitrites as well. By my count, it's at least 100" of fish, and many of those are large fish...
I am also curious...Do you vaccuum the gravel?

Why R/O? It is basically a very pure form of water and needs to have minerals added back before being added to the tank. If from the lfs, is it already prepared?

I would recommend buying your own test kits, if possible. Come in useful at times like these when you're trying to 'straighten things out'.

ps Albino catfish prob. an albino rainbow shark..yes, a catfish.

 

[jams.alaskan]

You have a couple of great replys here - I hope things start going better for you. Welcome to the forum.

ALASKA