Monte Carlo Growing Up, not OUT

[MuddyWaters]

I glued some Monte Carlo to some rocks when I set my plants in my new tank. I use CO2 (about 30ppm) and have a decent light (Fluval Plant 3.0 full light for about 7 hours).
I expected the Monte Carlo to grow out across the rocks, but it seems to be growing up more. It's definitely growing, it has released oxygen bubbles on occasion and I see lots of new leaves. However, it's not growing across the rocks and it isn't sticking to them. I kind of thought the roots would grab on the rocks. I trimmed it a little today, hoping that will help it grow out more and not up.

I read that if there's not enough light it will grow up, but dang, my light is a good one. I have not dived into PAR and all that jazz- just not up for the math at the moment LOL.

Would extending the 100% light time help or is it intensity only that keeps it growing low?

See pic below- pardon the hair algae- having a bit of a battle. Started EI fertilization recently- I'm hoping the plants will really start growing more and outdo the algae- also got some nerite snails and otocinclus

 

[Sgooosh]

I glued some Monte Carlo to some rocks when I set my plants in my new tank. I use CO2 (about 30ppm) and have a decent light (Fluval Plant 3.0 full light for about 7 hours).
I expected the Monte Carlo to grow out across the rocks, but it seems to be growing up more. It's definitely growing, it has released oxygen bubbles on occasion and I see lots of new leaves. However, it's not growing across the rocks and it isn't sticking to them. I kind of thought the roots would grab on the rocks. I trimmed it a little today, hoping that will help it grow out more and not up.

I read that if there's not enough light it will grow up, but dang, my light is a good one. I have not dived into PAR and all that jazz- just not up for the math at the moment LOL.

Would extending the 100% light time help or is it intensity only that keeps it growing low?

See pic below- pardon the hair algae- having a bit of a battle. Started EI fertilization recently- I'm hoping the plants will really start growing more and outdo the algae- also got some nerite snails and otocinclus

View attachment 332979View attachment 332980

I think 7 hours is too little, I have my daylight cycle light for almost 21 hours of varying light, only 3 hours of total darkness. (low tech tank)
I've never kept monte carlo, but I've kept my fair share of high light plants.
they seem to be etiolated, which means more light is necessary.

for hair algae, my nerite snails didn't help too much, but I've heard amano shrimp help. If you do plan on getting any, please let me know how it goes!

 

[MuddyWaters]

I think 7 hours is too little, I have my daylight cycle light for almost 21 hours of varying light, only 3 hours of total darkness. (low tech tank)
I've never kept monte carlo, but I've kept my fair share of high light plants.
they seem to be etiolated, which means more light is necessary.

for hair algae, my nerite snails didn't help too much, but I've heard amano shrimp help. If you do plan on getting any, please let me know how it goes!

Sgooosh- thank you! I had a feeling it might not be enough, but I had read some stuff elsewhere that seemed to indicate 6 hours might be too much. Weird, because my little tank is on full light (not adjustable) for 10 hours per day with no CO2 and it does great.

I am going to fix this now- more time to stare at the tank! Much appreciated.

 

[Nells250]

Odd... as an outdoor gardener, 21 hours of light sounds unnatural. I have too many hobbies to try to learn!!

 

[Sgooosh]

Odd... as an outdoor gardener, 21 hours of light sounds unnatural. I have too many hobbies to try to learn!!

hi! I do both types of gardening and even full shade outdoors can beat full direct sun indoors. an example is tradescantia:
they like light a lot, and will crawl towards it and seem etoliated indoors(maybe light is only from one direction/window)
but they spread out naturally outdoors (even in shade) since sun is coming from all directions and have better colors

 

[MuddyWaters]

Ok- I set the light to be 100% for 11 hours. I also went in there and brute force removed a bunch of hair algae- that algae that will not be named is the worst (B B A), but hair algae is not far behind.

It was all over the slow growing moss I put on the hardscape. I took that stuff out and got 99% of that moss off of there. Got the moss I put on rocks off of there. went with my tongs and swirled them like getting spaghetti through some of the other plants to get as much as I could.

I took out some of that Monte Carlo, because, for whatever reason, it's been collecting that dang hair algae too. I couldn't stand the thought of taking it all out (yet), though, so some is still in there.

I didn't use any chemicals yet- if I have to I'll have to pull out hardscape and use it outside and then wash them off and put back because I have a bamboo shrimp and a bunch of non-hair-algae-eating nerite snails that need to get their appetite into high gear! Same with them dadgum otocinclus- well, the otos can do what they want- I love them- so cute!

 

[OldFishKeeper]

My experience is Monte Carlo roots need a nutrient rich substrate, not glued to rocks.

The time it grew up instead of out was if it did not receive enough light...

 

[OldFishKeeper]

Ok- I set the light to be 100% for 11 hours. I also went in there and brute force removed a bunch of hair algae- that algae that will not be named is the worst (B B A), but hair algae is not far behind.

It was all over the slow growing moss I put on the hardscape. I took that stuff out and got 99% of that moss off of there. Got the moss I put on rocks off of there. went with my tongs and swirled them like getting spaghetti through some of the other plants to get as much as I could.

I took out some of that Monte Carlo, because, for whatever reason, it's been collecting that dang hair algae too. I couldn't stand the thought of taking it all out (yet), though, so some is still in there.

I didn't use any chemicals yet- if I have to I'll have to pull out hardscape and use it outside and then wash them off and put back because I have a bamboo shrimp and a bunch of non-hair-algae-eating nerite snails that need to get their appetite into high gear! Same with them dadgum otocinclus- well, the otos can do what they want- I love them- so cute!

Hair algae probably attacked your Monte Carlo because it lack nutrients and your other plants because of too much light.

Slow growing moss does not need anywhere close to what the Monte Carlo needs. If you want both, it is a balancing act between your light level, hours of light and if you have shade over the moss.

But, again, Monte Carlo does not grow on rocks.

 

[MuddyWaters]

Hair algae probably attacked your Monte Carlo because it lack nutrients and your other plants because of too much light.

Slow growing moss does not need anywhere close to what the Monte Carlo needs. If you want both, it is a balancing act between your light level, hours of light and if you have shade over the moss.

But, again, Monte Carlo does not grow on rocks.

Thanks OldFishKeeper-

I found an article that suggested gluing the montecarlo to rocks- I thought it was a bit weird, but they had a nice picture with it. Go figure.

I'm using the EI fertilization method which gives way more fertilizer than other methods that is then balanced by 50% - 75% water change once per week to balance things out. I guess I could still be adding too little for them- I will check the dosage I'm using to see if I should up it.

For light, I've gotten mixed opinions- as many folks saying not enough as saying too much. It started when I was doing 6 hours of light- I've upped it to 11 hours and went in today and pulled out as I could- I'm going to leave it where it is for now and see what happens.

I'm coming to the conclusion that I'm going to have to dig in to the science behind the lighting. I was hoping to just give it a light touch, but I can't find consistent info in the "easy to read" articles LOL.

Anyway, thanks for your input- it makes good sense.

NOTE: I went back to buceplant to see what they said- I found this:

"High lighting and Co2 injection is necessary to keep this plant low growing. Vertical growing thin stalks are an indication of lack of lighting while yellowing leaves can mean nutrition deficiency. Thin leaves can also hint at a lack of Co2."​

I have vertical thin stalks, and I have thin leaves. So, I think there's not enough light and I need more CO2.

The problem with lighting is that I can't up the intensity without adding another light. The one I have is pretty dang expensive - another will not get past the wife LOL

For CO2, I have soft water, so my dKH is low. So, I have to have low PH with the low dKH to get the CO2 to turn on. I'm down to 6.5 ph, and it's not netting enough CO2 - I can almost get 30ppm with the 3 dKH. So I'm using Potassium carbonate (or something like that) and am having to pour a LOT in there to up the dKH. I guess I'll have to add more

 

[OldFishKeeper]

Thanks OldFishKeeper-

I found an article that suggested gluing the montecarlo to rocks- I thought it was a bit weird, but they had a nice picture with it. Go figure.

I'm using the EI fertilization method which gives way more fertilizer than other methods that is then balanced by 50% - 75% water change once per week to balance things out. I guess I could still be adding too little for them- I will check the dosage I'm using to see if I should up it.

For light, I've gotten mixed opinions- as many folks saying not enough as saying too much. It started when I was doing 6 hours of light- I've upped it to 11 hours and went in today and pulled out as I could- I'm going to leave it where it is for now and see what happens.

I'm coming to the conclusion that I'm going to have to dig in to the science behind the lighting. I was hoping to just give it a light touch, but I can't find consistent info in the "easy to read" articles LOL.

Anyway, thanks for your input- it makes good sense.

NOTE: I went back to buceplant to see what they said- I found this:

"High lighting and Co2 injection is necessary to keep this plant low growing. Vertical growing thin stalks are an indication of lack of lighting while yellowing leaves can mean nutrition deficiency. Thin leaves can also hint at a lack of Co2."​

I have vertical thin stalks, and I have thin leaves. So, I think there's not enough light and I need more CO2.

The problem with lighting is that I can't up the intensity without adding another light. The one I have is pretty dang expensive - another will not get past the wife LOL

For CO2, I have soft water, so my dKH is low. So, I have to have low PH with the low dKH to get the CO2 to turn on. I'm down to 6.5 ph, and it's not netting enough CO2 - I can almost get 30ppm with the 3 dKH. So I'm using Potassium carbonate (or something like that) and am having to pour a LOT in there to up the dKH. I guess I'll have to add more

Seems to me that your lighting level is adequate, just needs more than 7 hours.

What you added about your soft water is interesting. You should look at the requirements for monte carlo.

After you improve the substrate (not rocks) and increase the hours of lighting, you may be better off. I would not add anything else before changing the substrate to something like fine Controsoil. It has properties that maintain a PH of 7.0.